TOYAH ON
SKY TRAX
APRIL 1985

PETER POWELL: You're very welcome, Toyah

TOYAH: Hello

PETER: Almost old friends. Born in the same area in the Midlands

TOYAH: Definitely

PETER: You went to a girl's school, didn't you?

TOYAH: I went to a public school, which is a very posh sort of upper class upbringing. I came out of it (puts on a posh nasal accent) talking like this and pretending I was one of the royal family. It was all horrible and I hated it

PETER: Did you get anything out of it at all?

TOYAH: Yeah, I learned to respect every person from every part of society. I don't think class systems matter, really. I was brought up to be a snob, and I was brought up to look down at my nose at people who worked, basically. I felt that was very wrong

I think everyone is equal emotionally, and that's what I learned from the school. It also taught you to go out and marry a rich husband and have lots of babies, and I'm certainly not one of those. I have no intention of ever marrying or ever having babies (Toyah with her dada Beric, below)


PETER: What was your first job?

TOYAH: I used to serve in a kiosk at a very famous department store in Birmingham selling cigarettes. That was to pay for my drama school. I used to go to drama school at the weekends. My parents said to me if I ever wanted to do anything that wasn't something they wanted me to do that I had to pay for it myself. So I had to earn my own keep to go to drama school

PETER: Have you ever been out of work since that first job?

TOYAH: Only once. I went from Birmingham to the National Theater Company and after my contract ran out with them, I was about 19, I was out of work for six months and that was hell. I think to be out of work is the most degrading thing anyone can have if they have the will to work, because work keeps your mind going

I'm a very ambitious person. If you take work away from me, you've taken my life away from me. I was just starved for six months. I starved of everything. Food, culture, the lot. I was felt totally depraved. It was horrible

PETER: There's a cliche which says rock and roll takes over your soul. Do you think that applies to you?

TOYAH: Oh yeah, it's a drug. It's an addiction

PETER: So you're a workaholic, really?

TOYAH: Total workaholic. I just love performing to people, and if the audience is taken away I might as well be put in a nut house in a padded cell, because there's no audience there. It is something that you need. I can only communicate to an audience. I can't communicate very well on a one to one basis. It's a perversion, really. I need an audience there. I need voyeurs there to bring it out of me

PETER: Your first experience of working there was in front of a camera, or at least - certainly in drama anyway, in acting ability

TOYAH: I went to drama school full time after I left the public school. I was spotted there after my first term at drama school. I got a lead role in a play ("Glitter", 1976), ironically about a girl who wanted to appear on Top Of The Pops and sing. So this girl had to break into the Top Of The Pop studio and film herself, and that's what the play was about. I co-wrote the songs for it. That was my first acting role


PETER: You've been fairly controversial, certainly quite outrageous during the early days

TOYAH: I think outrageousness should be linked with humanity. I think when you see people that were outrageous, who are not very nice people, I think that they're wasting their time. I think you can still be outrageous, you can still be controversial, and you can still respect human beings at the same time

When I see people these, these dreadful kind of communist types that slag off anything that isn't communist. I think, God, you're just not worthwhile. You're defeating the issue. The whole point is humanity and keeping the human race alive. Human race is number one. Your views fit in around that

PETER: As important as anything else is to remain free as well

TOYAH: Oh, yeah. I can't bear being trapped and I don't like anything that's regular. I don't like regular times and I don't like sleeping regular hours or eating at regular times. I don't like using knives and forks (Peter laughs) I’ve a pair of hands, I’ll eat with those, thank you very much. I think socially, my laws are very bizarre

I'm quite a quiet person, but when you stick me in a party I go berserk. I'm not very good in restaurants, because I don't like knives and forks and chairs either. I could be a bit loud, but I'd never hurt a human being's emotions. I'd never hurt another person, if I could help it

PETER: One of your anthems is “I Want To Be Free” and this is our first look at Toyah as a singer (the video plays) Quite a little anthem

TOYAH: Haven't seen that for ages. It was wonderful

PETER: Nice to see it again

TOYAH: I was young then. Three years ago, I think it was

PETER: In the early days when you were in rock and roll, sort of ‘76 till ‘79 - those first three years were full of excitement. Because you were in films, you were releasing your first singles, weren't you?

TOYAH: Yeah, in one year I made about three or four films, which were major movies, and that sort of changed my life. At the same time I had the band going in the punk era, and we weren't really a punk band. We were like a jazz rock band with a very kind of punky image. I spent a lot of time touring England, which was hell for a woman

As soon as you get up North of England, you you're just battling with men all the time. It's very strange. So it was a time of toughening up for me. I lived quite sheltered life in Birmingham and suddenly I was out on the road with a band that were all boys, and I was a woman. I was in punch-ups on stage and everything


PETER: But you actually thrived on that rather macho tough cookie image

TOYAH: Oh, yeah. I think at certain times it was a mask to hide behind. When you're going on stage and people are spitting at you and throwing beer cans at you and things ... I wasn't going to break down. I don't believe in breaking down over something like that. I stood there and took it and humiliated myself to win the audience over

But many a time I was in a punch-up, dived in there and had good old fisticuffs. It was great (laughs). That shocked the boys a bit. My band were quite often diving in after me to pull me out of a fight so they could get on with the show

PETER: You got involved in another fight, which we'll talk about later on, which was for real. In those years “Jubilee”, which was a very cult movie,
part of the punk -

TOYAH: “Jubilee” was made in the Jubilee year by Derek Jarman. There was Adam Ant, me. I think even Siouxsie and The Banshees appeared in it. It was a very fashionable movie to make and I think it will come into its own in about five years time. People will watch it and go “God!”

PETER: That’s right

TOYAH: Bit like the Sex Pistols film ("The Great Rock 'n' Roll Swindle", 1980)

PETER: You can still see “Jubilee” now in one or two cinemas

TOYAH: It's all over the place. Especially it shows on the late night circuit

PETER: And “Quadrophenia” as well, which is exciting

TOYAH: Yeah, "Quadrophenia" was a great film for me to do. I met The Who. Keith Moon died just the day before we were due to start shooting, so we didn't actually get to meet him, which is a drag because he was a hero. He was wonderful. But since then I've got to work with (Roger) Daltrey in a film of our own anyway. But “Quadrophenia” was all about the mods and the rockers and that was fabulous

PETER: Another era

TOYAH: Yeah

PETER: Was David Bowie ever a hero of yours?

TOYAH: Yeah. David Bowie I think is one of those people - I never want to meet him, and I never want to know him but his work just hits. The arrow hits dead on the on the bull’s eye whenever I hear his work. It just does something to me. Whenever I've done auditions I've always sung “Life On Mars” and always got the part so it's become a bit of a taboo, really, David Bowie and his music for me. There's a video you're going to show “Ashes To Ashes”

PETER: We can see it whenever you're ready

TOYAH: To me that it's the ultimate video because it sums up Bowie up there (points to her head). It sums up what I always felt was going on in his head. It was this semi-madness. There's the public figure that is quite straight and quite wonderful and chic, but there's this madness up there too, which I can kind of identify with on certain days (the video plays)


PETER: Do you find that songs that you listen to or songs you make are very much part of the mood?

TOYAH: My own songs?

PETER: Yeah

TOYAH: I like to write from failure. I find if I have something in my life that really gets up my nose or annoys me, that's when I write better. I think it's true when people say creativity can come from failure or it can come from a destruction of something. You can come out with a better writing technique. Usually if I'm dead happy and things are going well and I write, the lyrics that come out of me are sort of bland. You could throw them away, you could burn them. No one would care

But if something tragic has happened in your life, the writing that comes from that - you'll find more people will identify with it. “I Want To Be Free” was written off the back of anger, and it was written off this incredible grudge I had towards having to go to school. I feel that, even though it's a poppy song, and a lot of people find the tune naff, it does sum up a lot of what a lot of kids feel

PETER: In 1981 things were really beginning to happen for you. You were having your first hits, you were already being voted as most exciting newcomer, best female vocalist, best rocker, best hairdo (Toyah laughs) So it was all happening in the space of quite a short time. Did you ever have a chance to sit back, look at the mirror and go “Toyah, what have you got yourself into?”

TOYAH: Yeah, I think at the end of 1981 - when you walk down the street and have kids screaming and crying at you, you kind of sit down. You think, God, this is strange. This is really weird. Because when you get down to the basics I'm more vulnerable and more human than any of that lot, and I'm more childish and I'm probably more dumb than any of that lot. Why the hell are they screaming and crying at me? That sort of confused me a bit. I enjoyed it, but it was confusing

PETER: And you’re also jack of all trades to a certain extent? You were acting, you were in films, you were singing, you were touring. You were doing so much at that stage

TOYAH: Yeah, loved it. The more work, the better (laughs) That's the way it's got to be

PETER: Do you remember “Thunder In The Mountains”?

TOYAH: Yeah, I remember “Thunder In The Mountains”. I had to ride a chariot, and they were going to have a stunt person ride the chariot for me. I said “no way. I'm going to ride that chariot.” I really enjoyed it

PETER: Do you want to see it again?

TOYAH: Yeah, I'd love to, thank you (the video plays)

PETER: Do you look at these old videos and think, “wow, I've changed!”

TOYAH: Yeah, it's actually that one. When I was a kid there was Flower Pot Men (a kids's programme 1952-53) with (a sunflower called) Little Weed and there's Little Weed going “I’m Little Weed!” and I look like Little Weed in it. So whenever I see it I kind of laugh. I think of this little sunflower


PETER: Again, this sort of macho image of you on a chariot, all that scene

TOYAH: Yeah, I love all that. I know it's very butch (they both laugh) Got to have these little fantasies every now and then

PETER: When do you think you stopped being a little girl?

TOYAH: When did I stop?

PETER: Yeah

TOYAH: I don't think I have stopped. Because when I'm alone, I'm really quite strange. I like to play hopscotch still and have piggybacks and things when the camera isn't on me. I am still bit immature. I grew up physically over the past few years. I think I've grown up a bit. Not very much, but a bit

PETER: Broken out?

TOYAH: Yeah, the puppy fat’s going a bit. But mentally I don't think I'll ever grow up. I think age is a social disease. I just don't think you have to grow old. I think the body doesn't actually start aging until in your late 50s, so why should you mentally start aging when you're in your 20s?

PETER: You said you had a fairly sheltered home life. Did you ever go abroad in those early days? You ever go on holidays?

TOYAH: Yeah, I was taken to Majorca but those are kind of strange days. My brother and sister used take this wonderful delight in getting me very drunk on a drink called sangria. I had my first bout of alcohol poisoning when I was nine thanks to my brother and sister. It's was at one of these weird barbecues. They got me very drunk. So my memories of going abroad are quite strange, because of my my brother and sister’s perversities. But otherwise I used to love going abroad

PETER: Europe's a very big area to cover, and you have been out there a number of times in your career?

TOYAH: Yeah, I've toured and I've done TV appearances and things like that

PETER: A good buzz, generally?

TOYAH: Yeah, it's always been bubbling under. I've never been out there enough to fulfill it, which is a bit of a pain. But I hope to rectify that now. Now that I'm with an international company rather than an independent label I intend to tour more


PETER: Good. One of your favorite bands, same as mine. We do have an awful lot in common - Simple Minds

TOYAH: Oh God, yeah!

PETER: What's the magic about them?

TOYAH: It’s his (Jim Kerr) voice. It's the video you're about to see now which is “Don't You (Forget About Me)” - it has this repressed energy in it but when I listen to it I'm all bubbling inside even though this song never picks up tempo or anything like that. I like the way (Steve) Lillywhite produces

PETER: Because he used to produce you as well

TOYAH: Yeah, everything's right

PETER: Let's see it (the video plays) He's just got a total natural charisma, hasn’t he?

TOYAH: It's not trained perfection. It's a natural thing. Because when you listen to him sing it's it's not always in time, or it's not always quite in tune, but it works. And what I like is that live feel. I feel I'm a live performer, and they've kept that live performance on vinyl, which is something I'm striving for. So I always listen to them whenever I'm recording. I always listen to Simple Minds, because they give me a real buzz. It's great

PETER: Hit albums, hit singles over quite a lot of years now and I want to talk about the music side in a moment. But first, just to clarify and clear up the visual side, the acting side of Toyah. You've worked with Sir Lawrence Olivier? (in "The Ebony Tower", 1984)

TOYAH: Ooh, yeah

PETER: Who hopefully is known by millions all around Europe

TOYAH: Katharine Hepburn, too (in "The Corn Is Green", 1979)

PETER: Some of the best actors in the world! Were you out of your depth?

TOYAH: Oh, yeah. I'm always out of my depth, because I'm still learning about everything. But out of all the people in the world I could have worked with, Katharine Hepburn and Laurence Olivier (below with Toyah and Greta Scacchi) were the most human. They didn't act like stars or anything. They just had this great charisma, and they were very kind people because they kept seeing my imperfections and correcting them, but not kind of putting me down

Katharine Hepburn would, during the scene, have the whole shoot stop, and George Cukor was directing and she says (puts on Katharine’s accent) “Hey George, you know this lady - she ain't on camera well enough” and she'd sort of move me into a different position, so I had the scene. I'd be sort of mainly on camera throughout the scene. She was very giving like that, which is very rare


PETER: Sort of fatherly and motherly passion towards you

TOYAH: Yeah! Totally!

PETER: You held the stage on your own for a considerable length of time in London in a very aggressive stage play, which is called “Trafford Tanzi” (1983) which was all about a wrestler

TOYAH: It was wonderful!

PETER: You held the stage all on your tod. Was that an experience?

TOYAH: Oh, God, loved it! I think that, to me, is the greatest part I've ever played. I'm very sad it hasn't been immortalised on film but it was good. It was about a girl who has the hell beaten out of her from day one till the day she marries. I learned how to Thai wrestle, which is like kickboxing and Kung Fu. It's a kind of cross between those

Because I'm so small it didn't look right me fighting a fully grown man. The whole play was structured around this girl fighting all the time. But while she's fighting, she delivers the dialogue. “Hello. How are you today?” Which is wonderful. She's really good and I really enjoyed it. It was fabulous!

PETER: I came to see it and so did many thousands of Toyah fans. They're a very loyal bunch, aren't they?

TOYAH: Yeah, they were there every night. You could hear them outside. They didn't always come in the theater, but they waited outside the stage door for me. I used to go and talk to them in the intervals. “Hi, how are you?” They'd nick restaurant tables and chairs from around the area, and they'd be sitting at the stage door, wining and dining. These kind of punk rockers. It was wonderful!

PETER: The nearest we can get to a visual aspect of that is another of your videos which you want us to play. Wendy Williams

TOYAH: I'm not into all her music, but this video sums up how I'd like to make a video. I mean, this woman's really naughty

PETER: It's cool. “It’s My Life” (the video plays) Aggressive

TOYAH: It’s wonderful!

PETER: Fraction rude as well, perhaps

TOYAH: She's a very raunchy lady and a very hard woman. I'm very different to her in that. I don't think I'm as hard as that, but I just admire her

PETER: Wendy Williams “It’s My Life”. It's your life. We're almost up to date, actually. 1984 there was another movie which was “Murder: Ultimate Grounds for Divorce”

TOYAH: With Roger Daltrey. It was really good to get back on acting terms with him, because before he was the producer of “Quadrophenia” and then suddenly we were making a film together, which was really good


PETER: Is 1985 the time now, the era, for you to come back into the music aspect?

TOYAH: Yeah, I'll be touring Europe and I'm going to be releasing regularly now because I'm with a record company that I feel very confident with. I'm just going to start really concentrating on the music for a good decade. I will fit the acting in every now and then. I want to get touring again and doing all that again

PETER: Taking the cobwebs out of the system?

TOYAH: Yeah, I just feel that I'm at my best performing live. I haven't done enough in Europe, and I haven't done enough all over the world. As you say I've got to get it out of my system, and I'm going to go out and do it. I'm writing solidly now, which is something I was very lazy at in the beginning. I didn't write a lot, and now I write all the time. I love it. I'm just going to keep churning it out until I look old

PETER: Another hit for you. I've got some smashing pictures to show you, by the way, after this, of Toyah. This is “Don’t Fall In Love”, a new release from Toyah (the video plays) Very simple but very effective video

TOYAH: Yeah, I didn't want a video with a too complicated a storyline, because the subject matter of the song was kind of lovey-dovey, and it was mainly about jealousy and the female aggressor. I didn't want the storyline to dictate to the audience too much. I just wanted a performance. So it was quite nice. And we did it with Terence Donovan, who's a very famous photographer. He made me look human

PETER: Let's just show one or two of the photographs he's done

TOYAH: (in a manly voice) He made me look like a woman

PETER: There you go (shows a black and white photo to the camera) That's one of the shots that was done for Toyah. I hope you can see that. Can I ask you to sign those, if you would, and then one of the other guys on Sky Trax will give them away on the program in a competition

TOYAH: Yeah!

PETER: And also we've got three of these. A lovely color one as well (shows a poster) Very proudly, there you go. So if you can sign those as well, we can send those out

TOYAH: Definitely


PETER: Is this year been the time when you've perhaps matured most? This whole new look is a mature woman, isn't it?

TOYAH: Yeah, but it's keeping up with the time. I don't want to live in the past. And especially fashion wise and image wise I don't like looking the same all the time. I just feel 1985 is a year of progression within fashion that we haven't been through in quite some time. The punk elements kind of hung over the past four years

I want to change out of that and move on to another direction. I don't like being dictated to by fashion in that I had a look of zany colored hair, pink hair. That's not how I want to look for the rest of my life and I just keep moving on with the times, really

PETER: Any fears for the future?

TOYAH: Any fears? No, all I care is that Earth remains Earth. Human race remains alive. That's all I care about. There's no fears within my work or my life. That’s all a gamble anyway. But I'm not scared of it. I care for humanity at this moment in time. I can't bear see people blowing each other up

PETER: Well, it's worked for you so far. We're going to play out with Eurythmics which is another -

TOYAH: Annie Lennox is just so brilliant. I mean she's got a brilliant voice, brilliant presence. Her videos are brilliant, and the music's brilliant, so why not play out with her

PETER: Toyah, I’ve never done this before (kisses her one the cheek) I've got to say you're smashing!

TOYAH: Thank you! It's nice to b back

PETER: Good luck. Thank you very much. Bye bye, everyone

TOYAH: Thank you!

Watch the interview on Youtube HERE