TOYAH ON
THE MRS BARBARA NICE
& FRIENDS PODCAST
13.10.2020 

BARBARA: Hiya love!

TOYAH: Hello hello!

BARBARA: Thanks for doing this, I know you're busy and all that

TOYAH: Don't worry, I'm good

BARBARA: Right. Now listen – where are you living now luvvie, out in the countryside somewhere nice?

TOYAH: No, I'm in the middle of a market town near Worchester. I'm on a main road – well, I say a main road – it's a market town, I live on a market square and it's a very busy bustling town

BARBARA: Right. Because I live in King's Heath which is where -

TOYAH: I was conceived and born in King's Heath, on Grove Road. I used to walk into town because it's only three miles so it was calmer and quieter just to walk it

BARBARA: I know, love. Well, we're all walking now. I don't go on a bus at the moment. How are you doing over lockdown in Worchester? Is it affecting you or what's going on, love?

TOYAH: It's very very interesting. My husband has seen summer in England for the first time in 50 years because he's a touring musician

BARBARA: Haha of course, yeah

TOYAH: I feel I've got to know him – we've never had enough time together to know our foibles and boy is he a control freak

BARBARA: (howling with laughter): But has he got foibles?

TOYAH: (trying not to laugh) Yeah - I mean it's just so interesting. I've never been busier. Everyone is coming to me to do work for free - I don't know if it's the same for you?

BARBARA: Yes luvvie, everybody wants something for nought but listen it's alright to do it for a while but not all the piggin' time. We're clever but we can't live on fresh air

TOYAH: I've had six months of it, it's starting to feel as though I'm in prison. But I'm not complaining, our home is beautiful, our garden has never looked so fabulous. So it's good

BARBARA: I keep thinking it's like yin and yang, there's been good things and bad things about it, Toyah, but before we go any further because I want to talk to you about all this stuff with foibles and any DIY you've been doing and I know your record company wants to make sure we mention this. You've got this album coming up … It's a lovely title "Sheep Farming In Barnet". Why have you called it that?

 

TOYAH: It first came out in 1979

BARBARA: Oh, right! (laughs)

TOYAH: It's a re-release. The whole of my back catalogue is available in shops as of January so this is the very first album I ever released and it became very famous because it was featured on Shoestring with Trevor Eve and I played a character, a girl in a band and they featured all the music in this particular episode

BARBARA: Right, now, I remember Trevor Eve and I remember Shoestring. Wasn't he like a detective?

TOYAH: That's it, a detective in Weston-super-Mare of all places (Barbara laughs) I think we need more detective stories around the world in Netflix from Weston-super-Mare

BARBARA: We absolutely do! Home of trouble and intrigue

TOYAH: I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for Weston-super-Mare, my father went -

BARBARA: I thought you said King's Heath

TOYAH: Ah - but my father went to see the end-of-the-pier show when he got back from the war and my mother was a dancer that opened the act -

BARBARA: Awwww …

TOYAH: And they fell in love and thus the Willcox family were born

BARBARA: I tell you what – I love end-of-the-pier shows and I was thinking with all this outdoor entertainment having to come back … would they bring back beach shows, pier shows?

TOYAH: Well - thy should!

BARBARA: Resurgence you now what I mean, love?

TOYAH: Yeah, you've got to pay people, this is the problem

BARBARA: I know, Toyah (laughs)

TOYAH: Last week I did Deezer's drive-in cinema in London (above) It was gorgeous! The sun shone until it went down on the horizon. It was absolutely gorgeous! I opened it … They were showing concerts from Madonna, David Bowie, Stevie Nicks and Prince and this was to raise money for musicians and technicians who haven't been able to work for the six months

So when you talk about performing outside – I mean I'm up for performing anywhere but you've got to remember everyone from the person that cleans the venue to the person that puts the stage up to the actual artist is got to be paid

BARBARA: I'm absolutely with you, Toyah. Have you always had this feeling that we should all get paid because -

TOYAH: Hah! Yes!

BARBARA: You're like me – I haven't … lots of people think why don't you do it for nothing?

TOYAH: Because we're women!

BARBARA: Oh right! OK. So you think your husband is a good fella? He's got his foibles as we know but do you think you've been asked to do stuff for free more times than your husband does?

 

TOYAH: Oooh! That's such a good question. We're now getting into the argument of inequality of payment. My husband earns I would say ... at least 50 times more than I do and I work 50 times more than he does. That is just … you know – what it is

And I find that being a woman in the music industry you have to be available, you have to be able to … well – just be there! And at that point it's not about money - it's about profile and being seen … I'm 62 and I still feel I have to prove myself. So that's a big big quandary we're talking about there

BARBARA: Yeah - because life's all yin and yang and all that – because you're 62 – do you think it's keeping you fit and on the ball?

TOYAH: Oh yeah

BARBARA: Yeah - because you better keep going haven't you Toyah love, you know what I mean? We've still got so much to prove

TOYAH: Yes!!!

BARBARA: You what I mean “I've got to keep going – any minute now it could all happen” (laughs) That kind of feeling

TOYAH: Any minute I'm going to be discovered

BARBARA: That's right! (dying with laughter) So me hair better be alright and … I've been doing cold water swimming Toyah, have you ever tried it?

TOYAH: Well, I live on the river Avon (Toyah and Robert in their garden, below) and I don't want to try it – I avoid it ever day

BARBARA: Oh right (baffled) … Why do you avoid it? Why love?

TOYAH: Well, it just scares me in case I get swept away

BARBARA: Right … I've been going in the Avon. I've been going in there. I went in there yesterday, love

 

 

TOYAH: What was it like? It's flooded!

BARBARA: It was very high, that's very true that is. Why was it … ah! It was a lot higher than it usually is

TOYAH: How come you're still alive?

BARBARA: We don't stay in for very long I tell you that for nothing. It's very good for you, honestly

TOYAH: Well, I believe that. Did you swallow any of the water?

BARBARA: No, but sometimes people go past in boats and go “we wouldn't swim in it, we know what goes in it” which I think is them pooing in it. I don't mean in a bad way but emptying the … which they should't do, Toyah

TOYAH: I know that fish and sheep and swans and ducks all poo in it

BARBARA: Yeah I know, I know … but that seems such a natural – I tell you what - I've been very interested in – because you used that word sheep and the re-mastered album is called "Sheep Farming In Barnet" and I've noticed this going from King's Heath … All the sheep stay in one direction don't they? So say a sheep is laying down – every sheep is laying down. Say one sheep is looking to the left – they're all looking to the left. Have you ever noticed that about sheep?

TOYAH: I have noticed that. I have a lot of sheep opposite me in the field and they … well, it's a herd. They're a herd community … But they do trust each other. When their feed comes out they're all there. 

I just watched a wonderful film the other day – sheep that discovered a trampoline (Barbara laughs) and it has actually worked out how to use the trampoline. I think sheep are clever because they pretend to be stupid and they're not …

BARBARA: Oh, lovely! I'd like to see that! So it's jumping up and down on the trampoline?

TOYAH: It's worked out what to do. Just put “sheep on a trampoline” into google

BARBARA: (laughs) Well, I'm going to and all my listeners – I tell you what, we've got people in New Zealand and everything … I bet after this they're all be putting “sheep on a trampoline” - but also google this re-mastered album by Toyah. And you're doing a Twitter Watch Party? (NB: It's a Twitter Listening Party) Tell us about that, love – what's that?

TOYAH: That was last Saturday. Tim Burgess of The Charlatans runs these wonderful listening parties. They played the whole album (Anthem) and I tweeted all the way through the album and it had such a huge reaction. It was one of the biggest albums of '81 and at the end of that year I played Drury Lane on BBC (below) so that was broadcast to twelve million people

So this is a big album and it was fantastic! So many people have great memories from meeting their future spouses, getting chucked out of school for dying their hair pink, just being in trouble with their mum for coming to see me concert when they should've been studying for their O Levels. All of that

 

BARBARA: Now, talking about kids and you were talking about kids turning up in the cars to watch the outdoor performance … I feel very sorry for young people with all this lockdown stuff, don't you -

TOYAH: I feel sorry for - (they talk over each other)

BARBARA: Go on -

TOYAH: We didn't have to pay for our education. I don't know how old you are but I didn't have to pay and I don't want to be a politician but I know what I believe in and no child that is growing up to be a taxpayer should have to pay for their education

And if we can find all this money today to fund everyone in furlough - which is deserved - but why can't we find the money to fund the NHS and fund future taxpayer's education It drives me mad

BARBARA: Oh dear … it was all that “there's no magic money tree” and suddenly they found loads at the back of the settee, didn't they. “Hang on a minute! We can shut down all the schools, we can plough your own furlough, we'll pay you for that” ... Who do we owe the money to, Toyah? We owe it to somebody ...

TOYAH: Let's hope it's Philip Green and … a few other billionaires (Barbara laughs)

BARBARA: I hope it's Phil Green – he's a nuisance isn't he with the awful treatment of the BHS people. I think you're like – you like things to be fair for people. Maybe there's a way after all this that things will get better. There was a moment when I looked out my window and I saw the birds – like you say with your husband – in the summer …

I think our summer's been beautiful I think and the birds … Back to nature which you are anyway where you are living and I thought maybe we can have a different way of life. Maybe this will make things different for us. Do you think there's any hope of us living a better life, like you say – not having to pay for education, Toyah?

TOYAH: I think it's a learning curve. I don't want another six months in the same house with my husband though (Barbara dying with laughter)

BARBARA: Right, how can we help each other? I'm the same with my husband. Does he do crosswords?

TOYAH: No

BARBARA: What's he doing?

TOYAH: He shuts himself in his study and comes out when he wants to be fed (Toyah and Robert at home during lockdown, below)

 

BARBARA: Oh right … 

TOYAH: I mean he's a wonderful wonderful man

BARBARA: That is rare, of course

TOYAH: I'm a vagabond, I want to be out there travelling, singing, seeing places

BARBARA: Oh right. This is often what women and men are like. The women have got more of this vagabond you know “let's get on the back of the car and go and put on a show somewhere”

TOYAH: Yes!

BARBARA: Men are saying “where's me tea? What are we having for dinner?” I've got a sitcom called Mrs Barbara Nice which they are repeating on Radio 4 Extra at the moment which I'm really glad about. You know when you've done something good and you think awww nobody will ever hear it again and they bring it out and I was thinking ooh - smashing

It's all about me and my husband Ken and the way – Barbara and Ken have just retired and Barbara is wanting to do loads of things but he doesn't want to do them and that is typical really

TOYAH: Sounds like my marriage!

BARBARA: Yeah … Why don't you come wild swimming with me and Vera?

TOYAH: They probably would – I'm going with my hairdresser of 50 years -

BARBARA: Brilliant, Toyah! (cackles)

TOYAH: And my husband who'll need feeding

BARBARA: Alright - but they probably won't come in – it's usually women that do it … Which again fits in with this thing of – this spirit of adventure. We only stayed in for a couple of minutes yesterday because it was freezing but it's made us feel alive -

TOYAH: What - swimming?

BARBARA: Yeah, in that water, yeah

TOYAH: I just can not believe (laughing) – do you go in -

BARBARA: It's a fisherman's place and we always say, if there's one there - “do you mind if we go in?” and yesterday this fella said “Yes, I do” (cackles)

TOYAH: That water is moving so fast! We've had five days of rain – I can't believe you did it! (Toyah in her garden with the river Avon in the background, below)

BARBARA: That's it – I didn't realise it was so high

TOYAH: Are you sure he wasn't saying “no lass, don't go in, you might be washed away” “I prefer you don't go in”

BARBARA: He might've been helpful (cackles) We're going to have to meet up, it's brilliant to talk to you, Toyah! So anything else you want to - I've enjoyed meself having an early morning laugh. I think laughing is good for you as much as anything. Do you?

TOYAH: Ah – laughing is better than everything else. I was going to say it's better than sex but I know I'll be quoted (Barbara laughs) “Laughing is as almost as nice as eating chocolate”

BARBARA: (laughs) It's brilliant! I feel better for it already. So you're still working hard and I've been working hard all the way through – it's like what you were saying about women – you just have to think “I better get on with this!” It's literally sink or swim, isn't it?

TOYAH: Well, I suppose at the age of 62 if I don't get on with it I'm really going to miss the boat

BARBARA: Yeah

TOYAH: At the moment I'm doing my next solo album which lockdown is perfect for because I can get on and do it and I can write in relative peace because normally – and I bet you're the same – I'm in the car about 8 hours a day going to venues so it has allowed me to be really really creative and that for me is a really kind of good side. As you say this time has good and bad. But having the time to just find myself creatively has been really good

BARBARA: It's brilliant you've said that because I've spoken to a lot of artists and one of themes of these chats with people has been creativity. And some people have said “I've not felt – I think I ought to be creative but I haven't felt like it” whereas you've done it, I think it's brilliant

And like you say I have spent hours and hours on public transport – buses, coaches, trains – going up and down the country and doing my work gigging, you know … and to be at home … I like that, Toyah. I don't like all the travelling … You might … I like being somewhere different and I like being with other people but I don't like being knackered all the time and coming home and seeing my garden and thinking I can't do me garden

TOYAH: Well, it's the carrying isn't it … You're carrying stuff in and out of venues, in and out of hotels. I love my car because as soon as I get in the car and I've done the gig – the silence is beautiful and I can just enjoy the moment of that concert that has just happened. And I miss that magical little bubble as I drive through the night. That for me is my favourite part of the day

BARBARA: Awww … I think it's interesting – the different things we miss. I tell you what I properly miss – do you ever watch Talking Pictures on the telly?

TOYAH: All the time! It was was on an hour ago!

BARBARA: It's brilliant, Toyah, I love it. There was one – I love anything that's set in the theatre – you know, a show business story … I can't remember which film it was, some very good actors in it and there was a scene backstage in the dressing room and I suddenly thought … I'm missing being in a dressing room

TOYAH: Yeah …

BARBARA: You know, with the other actors – I love acting, I know you do acting and all. You know, that feeling with being in a room with people and backstage … On stage is alright but backstage is magical. I miss that, the backstage bit

TOYAH: I agree. Performers are very observational – they'll tell you things in the green room that you see every day but you don't realise. With Talking Pictures – I was on in lockdown with Quartermass (below) and I watch it because I've worked with virtually everyone on it. I've worked with Sir John Mills, Lawrence Olivier, Richard Johnson who was on last night … So I watch it and think oh my goodness – when I was 19 I worked with these people!

BARBARA: Aww … What a brilliant career and life you've had … When you were a lovely kid, lovely girl, love the idea of you walking into Birmingham, a smashing spirited girl … Did you have any idea you'd meet all these fantastic icons? These great people?

TOYAH: I was determined to meet them but I wasn't confident that I ever would. Something just miraculously changed around the time I was 18 and people just started to see me for the first time. 

I was at the Birmingham Rep Drama School and I wasn't very honed – very much a rough diamond but someone spotted me and they thought “that girl is for TV” and I ended up at the National Theatre by the age of 18 and doing these amazing films with really big stars and then music took off. So I consider the years between 18 and 25 as if an angel was on my shoulder just pointing in the right direction. It was quite magical

BARBARA: I love this expression that suddenly “somebody saw me” and that's so – we all need these mentors, don't we and that's where things like kids going to drama school, kids going to Midlands Arts Centre … I worry about kids not being able to kick off their careers at the moment because they're all being kept away from each other. 

We need these art places for people to mingle with older people. They know what they're talking about and go “hey, you're good you are! And I'm going to help you”

TOYAH: You also need the culture of kids going out and physically meeting other kids. Those with talent because they go out and do exactly that. They walk onto every karaoke stage, they walk onto every platform in a bar, they actually do what they're dreaming of doing, no matter where they are – they physically do it and there's nothing like the physicality of experiencing and audience literally two feet away from you. 

That's what teaches you more than anything. So I agree about the art centres but I think if you're going to live via social media you really need to get out there and meet people face to face

BARBARA: Couldn't agree with you

TOYAH: You trust humans beings more by doing that

BARBARA: And also, Toyah, when you talked about the audience – the audience tells you you're good as well, don't they?

TOYAH: Oh yeah

BARBARA: The audience go “we like you” and I think they guide you. It's like a game of hot and cold with an audience. They kind of egg you on and if you're doing something they like they become … more behind you and if you go away from that they turn up a bit – they make you, they form you

TOYAH: Have you ever had an audience member who's had a running conversation with you right through the show?

BARBARA: Little bits but … not much. Why? Have you?

TOYAH: Yes! (they both laugh) When I do rock clubs and there's no crash barrier and I don't really need crash barriers but sometimes stages are no higher than two foot and I'm only about 4'11 … People are literally – you can feel their breath and they're saying “oh that dress is nice” “Oh look that lipstick, what colour is that lipstick?” 

And you're singing and all you can hear is “oh gosh I like your shoes” (Barbara laughs) and “what you're doing after?” and you're bang in the middle of song!

BARBARA: It's very good of you to keep your concentration! I would say something! Don't you ever stop and say “Marks and Spencer's” or …

TOYAH: I do sometimes but if I veer of a lyric and I'm not going to go back to that lyric, I'll never find it again

BARBARA: (laughs) Do you think they're trying to put you off? They can't help it?

TOYAH: No! No, I think they're just being friendly, they're being “them”

BARBARA: Awww … how lovely, Toyah. Do you have, I bet I know the answer to this - do you have superfans that follow you everywhere?

TOYAH: We do have superfans … You've got to remember it's expensive to follow someone everywhere and I bet you're the same as me – my gigs … I have no geographical sense whatsoever … I could be in Inverness one day and Brighton the other and then back up to Aberdeen so my superfans need a lot of money to follow me

BARBARA: I've got one called Deborah. I always say “Oh Deborah won't come in” and she's there like “piggin' heck - it's Deborah!”

TOYAH: Oh - that's good!

BARBARA: (laughs) It's nice, yeah. You don't feel alone. You can feel quite alone - which you don't maybe feel so much because when I'm doing stuff it's just usually me on my own … But you're with a band mostly are you?

TOYAH: That's really hard being on your own like that

BARBARA: Yes it is, love

TOYAH: I'm with – I've got four band members (below) and they drive me mad – the same way my husband does that they always want feeding (Barbara laughs) When I get to a venue all that matters is the show, the music, the audience. That's all that matters. And I don't go to work – or the reason I'm a singer is not because I want to feed someone when I get to work so that's actually one of my biggest bugbears in life

BARBARA: (laughs) What are you saying, Toyah? You'd be better off offering them a meal while you set up. I wouldn't be bothered about that. I like this idea “it's the audience (that matters)” … I'm all for the audience

TOYAH: Oh God they matter so much! They've paid so much money to see you. They are all that matters. They are absolutely the most special people in the world once you walk on that stage. I'm really passionate about that, I'm so protective towards the audience

BARBARA: I'm glad you are, I'm the same. I do things with my audience like take them out and play “what's the time Mr Wolf?”

TOYAH: Oh, how do you play that?

BARBARA: I give them hi-vis jackets so they don't get run over. I'm the wolf and the audience follow me. So they go “what's the time Mr Wolf?” and I turn around and they freeze and I go “one o'clock” and then they follow me again and that carriers on til I say “dinnertime” and then I run after them because I'm going to catch one of them and have them for my dinner and people do get frightened, Toyah

TOYAH: (laughs) How old are your audience?

BARBARA: It varies, some of them are very old, some of them haven't run for years (they both cackle) Some of them are younger. One of the things I like about my audience and I think you might be the same – it's very varied. 

So young kids really like me, I've got a lot of young lads that like me quite a lot. And then there's older women, younger women. A variety of people. I welcome everybody and (I am) very inclusive. I think it's important. I call them FOBS. Friends of Barbara

TOYAH: That's nice. I like that. Mine would be FOTS

BARBARA: Yeah, that's right. Friends Of Toyah (they both laugh)

TOYAH: Hello, FOTS!

BARBARA: Yeah - you could use that and I can say “I taught Toyah that!” Who else could we have … Friends of … Madonna. FOM

TOYAH: That's good. Do we know a Dick? A FOD

BARBARA: FOD! Friends of Dick's. I can't think of …

TOYAH: Horatio Dickinson. Friends of FOOD … no -

BARBARA: You're doing really well, you should be doing Word Search, Toyah

TOYAH: No, I'm so dyslexic it's not a good idea

BARBARA: Are you? Oh well, you're a brilliant talker. You didn't hear Floaella Benjamin on Desert Island Discs did you?

TOYAH: Oh, I love Floella! I didn't hear it but I love her

BARBARA: I want you to listen to it because FOFS – Friends of Floella's, I think they're very special people. It's a very moving … have you met her?

TOYAH: Oh yeah

BARBARA: Oh God, alright. You've met them blinkin' all. Is she as nice as she seems? She seems wonderful

TOYAH: Floella used to organise the Woman Of The Year event in October (Toyah with Princess Diana at the 1986 event, below) at the Savoy so I mean she's just one of these phenomenal women who does everything and does it really well and does it without and inch or a speck of scandal. That woman is as pure as saint. She is phenomenal

BARBARA: She comes over as that. Listen, how about me, you, your hairdresser friend, Floella, Vera all go in swimming in the Avon. Say a week on Monday?

TOYAH: I have a terrible feeling only three of us will come back

BARBARA: (dying with laughter) Which three?

TOYAH: (laughing) I don't think my hairdresser would make it!

BARBARA: (cackling) So it's me – I'd come back. Vera would! You think Floella's going down as well? (howling with laughter)

TOYAH: I don't know Floella well enough – if she can swim

BARBARA: Fair enough – we'll have to ask her (laughing) You've made me laugh, You've got to go because you've got ITV and everybody to talk to today. You've been part of the Birmingham Comedy Festival as well having a chat with me so thank you very much! We've had a laugh, haven't we?

TOYAH: Yes, it's been wonderful and I hope to get to see you soon

BARBARA: Yeah – for this swim

TOYAH: (sarcastically) Lovely!

BARBARA: Bring someone close and a woolly hat!

TOYAH: I'm going to bring a wetsuit!

BARBARA: Oh no no no! You've got to go skin on skin

TOYAH: Oh! (both burst out laughing hysterically) I'll bring my favourite young man then

BARBARA: Yeah alright! Good luck making your husband stay tonight!

TOYAH: Ooooohhhh

BARBARA: Thank you! You've been lovely. Take care, Toyah

TOYAH: Take care, safe journeys!

BARBARA: I love you darling, take care, bye

TOYAH: Bye! 

 

Listen to the podcast (Toyah comes in at 9 minutes 30 seconds) here