TOYAH ON
BBC RADIO 4
LOOSE ENDS
WITH CLIVE ANDERSON
12.4.2019

(Also in the studio YolanDa Brown, Emma Bunton and
Daisy Haggard)

CLIVE: Toyah Willcox, who since the 1970’s has enjoyed a special combination of careers on stage, on screen and in music. That’s alright, isn’t it?

TOYAH: (laughs) That’s a long time. I'm so tired (they all laugh)

CLIVE: Anyway, since the 1950’s … no! 1970’s you've been doing very well. As you put it on your own website “from a Punk Princess to cult stage actress to High Priestess of TV, a uniquely gifted performer and an inextinguishable flame” -

TOYAH: I didn’t write that (they laugh) Thank you!

CLIVE: Sounds good, but your latest project is a reworking of your 2008 album “In The Court Of The Crimson Queen” in collaboration with Simon Darlow. So why are you reworking - what's the plan here?

TOYAH: Well, this album started in 2008, and the fans have just absolutely loved it. We only did it for the fans, and 10 of the songs ended up in a musical in London, three years ago, “Crime And Punishment” (Toyah visiting the theatre in 2016, below) and 5 of the songs ended up in movies. I was 60 last year on May the 18th and the fans downloaded me to number one in the charts, and I found myself in this situation (where) I was an unsigned artist, unable to get radio play and I was at number one.

So I was picked up by label, we remastered it, we put down live drums, live bass, and by the way - Simon Darlow who wrote the “Slave To The Rhythm” for Grace Jones - we've been in writing partnership for 42 years. And he played all the instruments on the album. Remastered it. Added new material, 5 new songs, so it's now a double album, out today and in the pre-order charts on a very well known site - it went to number one across the board.

So we don't know how it's going to do today, but the fans have done this. I have to say without their support I would just be out there playing live, which is what I do all the time, all through the year, but to have that level of interest - we've had to move the tour into that bigger venues, which is just astounding. So it's been a really exciting roller coaster few months 

CLIVE: Well, that’s brilliant. That covers most of the interview, I think (they all laugh)

TOYAH: We’ve got 40 years to cover!

CLIVE: Can I just go back to what you said almost in passing there that these songs - some of them were originally used in a musical. “Crime and Punishment”, so this is based on Dostoevsky's novel?

TOYAH: It just happened that all the songs I wrote fitted the script, and it was a beautiful version of the play, done at the Scoop Theatre at Tower Bridge.

CLIVE: So you’ve got songs about killing your landlady and being in agony over that - that sort of thing?

TOYAH: I always invert taboos. I like to invert how women can physically protect a man, or I invert how a bad man - what we perceive as a bad man - has the softest heart in the world or that if you really don't like your gender, you can be fluid in your agenda. And we've done all this with cultural references.

So I've referenced the 28 albums I've made in the history of my career with slight tonal things and slight words that the fans can recognise, but also with basic sounds going back - from things I heard in the 70’s and in the 60’s that I loved like Motown. Music has been so phenomenal throughout my life and the 70’s in particular, so we linked in little kind of cultural references but going back to your question -

CLIVE: Yes! It was a some time ago but never mind!

TOYAH: Yes, you're right, there is a lot in my songs that are very very naughty. And I found as soon as I hit 50 I became naughtier, and no one tells you this about life as a woman. I mean at 60 I'm having a great time! (they all laugh) At 50 I just became so uncontrollably naughty -

CLIVE: You've always been I've been uncontrollably naughty, haven’t you?

TOYAH: There’s quite rude things in some of these songs. They just fitted “Crime and Punishment” -

CLIVE: Hang on, I’m going to play a little bit of – you’ve got single from this (album) called “Sensational” – is that right?

TOYAH: Yeah, that's one of the cleanest songs (they all laugh)

CLIVE: Let’s just play a little bit, we’ve had everyone else’s music. (Here’s a) little bit of “Sensational”.

(The song plays)

CLIVE: Well done!

TOYAH: Thank you!

CLIVE: You’re right, there’s nothing rude in there that I could detect -

TOYAH: That’s about passing the baton on to the young ‘uns, it's all about passing power and knowledge on to the next generation -

CLIVE: You've always been a bit naughty because in addition to music career you've had an acting career. Was the first thing you did “Jubilee”, Derek Jarman’s film? That had it’s moments of …

TOYAH: It’s a fantastic film and I did it live on stage at the Hammersmith Lyric (theatre) last year with a fluid gender cast which was amazing. Derek would have loved it. I played Queen Elizabeth the 1st. It was a phenomenal film to be in. It was the first film I'd ever been in. And here I was with these fantastic people like Adam Ant, Little Nell, Jenny Runacre, Ian Charleson. All groundbreaking people. They taught me so much about life that I never knew.

CLIVE: So on stage you are Queen Elizabeth?

TOYAH: Queen Elizabeth the 1st -

CLIVE: In the film you -

TOYAH: I was “Mad” the pyromaniac in the film (they all laugh)

CLIVE: But how did you get that part?

TOYAH: With Derek Jarman?

CLIVE: Yes

TOYAH: I literally was working with Ian Charleson. I was 18, I was at the National Theatre, and Ian said “You've got to come and meet this director called Derek Jarman”, so we went along for tea. There was a script on the sofa, called “Down With The Queen” at that time. Derek handed it to me and said “pick a part”. He didn't even know if I could act!

So I went through the script, looked for the part with the most lines which was “Mad” that pyromaniac and I thought, yeah, I can do that. And I got the part, and never looked back really because I became a bit of a muse to Derek. I then went on to do Shakespeare's “Tempest” (below) with him which I think is one of the best films I've ever been. Playing “Miranda”.

CLIVE: Right, excellent. And you're also in “Quadrophenia” - I assume you enjoyed that as well?

TOYAH: It was amazing. Well, I mean “Quadrophenia” is 40 years old this year. So all the cast, right from everyone on the poster to Ray Winston, Sting, Timothy Spall - we've all got together recently to make a documentary for Sky Arts and there's lots going on in Brighton as you can imagine because it's all about the riots in Brighton between mods and rockers, so I'm really honoured to be part of that -

EMMA BUNTON: I watched that film over and over and over . . .

TOYAH: Really? Isn’t that amazing!

CLIVE: Is that what inspired you to be a rock star or to go to Brighton?

EMMA: No, it’s a bit much! (they all laugh)

TOYAH: I was a punk rocker at the time so it was a bit conflicting. My gigs with the band used to turn into riots because mods were coming along see another mod perform and there I was as a punk rocker. So many police used to have to get us out of the building. I mean, they always used to seem to get us out of loo windows at the back of the theatre into buses and drive us out the area because riots were breaking out -

CLIVE: But as I said, you got into the film because you're already at the National Theatre. Take us one stage back from that. Did you know when you're at school "I am somebody who can be a singer, I can act, I can do all these things". Were you a scholar?

TOYAH: God no! I just never fitted in, I'm chronically dyslexic. Attention span of a gnat. I just didn't fit into the system so I ended up directing the school plays, doing all the artwork at school, and that's the only thing I ever enjoyed -

CLIVE: So you started as a director? That’s what actors aspire to!

TOYAH: About the age of ten the only thing I could learn at school was German opera. For some reason I had a real kind of link to opera. So I used to have my opera lessons in a quiet little room by the gym at school and I'd open the door and there'd be a whole audience listening outside the room -

CLIVE: I know from what YolanDa told me before the show started - you’re a bit of a clever clogs for all the dyslexia and not paying attention at school. Is it Eggheads (below) you appeared on?

YOLANDA: She took us to victory. She took out the Egghead, cracked on the head literally -

TOYAH: We got snowed in at Glasgow airport which was exciting. I won “Mastermind” last November. My key subject was “Bodacea”so . . . I’m not stupid, I’m just dyslexic (they all laugh)

CLIVE: Is “Boadicea” an inspirational figure for you?

TOYAH: Yeah, there's a project coming out to do with “Boadicea” . . . I didn't tell the BBC this at the time. I'm really having to study her at the moment -

CLIVE: There's a great myth that she - I don't think it's true but that she died somewhere near where King’s Cross Station is now so there's a road named after but I don't think there's much to sustain that myth -

TOYAH: Also where Watling Street crosses, up near Coventry . . . She's supposed to have died in many places. That woman must have had so many siblings that died all over the place because no one really quite knows -

CLIVE: She was enraged by the Romans -

TOYAH: Of course she was enraged!

CLIVE: She was very badly treated -

TOYAH: Yeah she was a phenomenal woman -

CLIVE: All right, well, that's a different Queen, Queen of the Britons but “In The Court Of The Crimson Queen” is available now and all the other projects that you've mentioned along the way. Toyah, thank you for joining us. That's the loose ends tied up.

You can listen to the episode HERE

Toyah at the BBC 4 studios 12.4.2019
The show was broadcast 15.4.2019