TOYAH AND ROBERT ON
LOVE YOUR WEEKEND
WITH ALAN TITCHMARSH
ITV, 23.11.2024

ALAN: Talking of royal sisters you had an encounter with Princess Margaret?

TOYAH: I did. I never expected that I'd be invited to Buckingham Palace, to St James' Palace, but I was recording an album called “Anthem”, which “It’s A Mystery” came off, and I got this invite from St James’ from the Queen Mother - would I go to tea and go and meet her? I remember phoning up my mum and dad and saying “I'm going to St James'. This is incredible”

I arrived with the designer Katharine Hamnett, and we were taken into a beautiful salon, and we waited, and out came Princess Margaret and the Queen Mother. Both on separate sofas and they took it in turns to talk to us. I turned out that Princess Margaret wanted to meet a punk rocker (they all laugh) We had a fantastic time!

ALAN: Queen Mother said “I'll get one in!”

TOYAH: Yeah, literally! What I loved about Princess Margaret, because I met her many, many times socially, she was more punk rock than punk rock ever was. She was a free soul, a free spirit. Incredibly witty, very, very clever and really good fun at parties

ALAN: She stayed up quite late at parties as well. What about musical heroes? Who's your musical hero?

TOYAH: Without a shadow of doubt David Bowie. Long time. When I first saw him the effect was life changing. Here you had this man in this spacesuit with makeup on at a time when men couldn't do that. He was groundbreaking. I thought that's what I want to do and want to be. But then he had this incredible body of work from about 1970 right through to 1983

The body of work that he wrote in that period no other artist has matched. Work that just changed the industry so much. Whenever I felt lost or confused, when I was being creative and writing albums I always went back to him. I went back to his incredible creativity and the fluidity with how he was creative, because there was no method that he followed. Everything he did was brand new and fresh and different and just kind of so exciting

(Clips of videos of “It’s A Mystery”, “Thunder In The Mountains” and “ I Want To Be Free” play)

ALAN: Just a few of the low key songs that were the signature dish of Toyah Willcox (laughs) They really did define an era, didn’t they?


TOYAH: This all came out of punk in the late 70s into the early 80s, which became new wave, and that went on to be electropop. So it's a very exciting time in music history

ALAN: Did you feel you were leading or was it sort of going on and you were sometimes keeping up with it?

TOYAH: I felt I was leading about 1978, which sounds a long way away, but from 1978–79 to 1980 I was drawing massive crowds to pubs - because we all played pubs back then. 2000 kids would turn up and shut the town down and that was a remarkable feeling

Then 1981 I was asked to record “It’s A Mystery” and that turned my life around. I became an international name at that point. It was at that point that everything was just a little bit more controlled. So when I look back, I'm so excited about that build up because it was so unpredictable

ALAN: But as you say, such a following. It was the thing. It was almost frenzied, really, wasn't it? Not just your performances, but but that whole period was so intense!

TOYAH: It was very intense. But I have to say, I loved every minute of it (Alan laughs)

ALAN: Well, your most recent experience of hopefully loving every minute of it was on “Strictly Come Dancing” as the “Little Mermaid”

(A clip of Toyah on "Strictly Come Dancing" plays)

ALAN: It wasn't a long rein Toyah, (she cackles) but you didn't go out in the first week. There you are with Neil Jones strutting your stuff in “Musicals Week”. Astonishing costume. How did you dance with that wig on your head?

TOYAH: The wig wasn't too heavy. They'd hollowed out the center of it. I have to give a big wave to the costume department at Strictly - they are incredible! They have to produce 28 costumes a week. We don't see what we wear, or I didn't see what I was wearing until the day of the show. If that costume isn't working, they take it off you, and they give you something completely different to wear

My favorite bit was the training. We trained seven hours a day. I loved it! I loved the intensity and the focus of it, and then you go to Elstree (studios), and you're just surrounded by noise and makeup and clothes! It's fabulous!


ALAN: It must be tempting at that point to completely forget everything you've ever learned over the last week or whatever

TOYAH: It's quite a pressurized thing. It definitely is quite outstanding in its experience. But I was on with beautiful celebrities. We all really got on incredibly well, and I feel very privileged to have done it

ALAN: Because there’s been quite a bit of controversy about it of late

TOYAH: Of late

ALAN: So you didn't feel in any way threatened at all? You enjoyed the experience?

TOYAH: I've been in this business for 45 years and I have been criticised every day of my life (Alan laughs). So I'm used to it. I'm also used to, as a woman, having to prove myself every day. You just you toughen up to it. I still really believe that it was a fantastic opportunity. Every day opportunities were handed to me and I just worked incredibly hard to make the most of it and I loved every second. It's as simple as that

ALAN: And now you can go and have holiday

TOYAH: Yeah, I've worked with tougher directors. I've worked with George Cukor, who directed Judy Garland in “A Star Is Born”. He shouted every day at not only me, but I was with Katharine Hepburn and they'd shout at each other. I'm used to this. When you're at the top, it's tough. It's so tough

ALAN: As Katharine would know

TOYAH: Yes

ALAN: “The Corn Is Green” with Katharine Hepburn. It's not often you can introduce a guest who's acted with this icon, is it?

(A clip from “The Corn Is Green” plays)

ALAN: To have a part like that with Katharine Hepburn. It wasn't just walk on, walk off - you're having a scene together


TOYAH: We had so many scenes together.

ALAN: Oh! C’mon on! Tell us all about her! She’s such an iconic name!

TOYAH: The first meeting I had with her was at Eaton Square in London and George Cukor opened the door. My agent said “you're going to meet Katharine Hepburn and you're going to read this play with her.” George Cukor opened the door and I just thought he was this gorgeous old American man

He led me into a living room. Katharine Hepburn and I sat on a sofa and she said, “I'm very interested in you. You're a punk rocker” and I said, “well, yeah, I'm also an actress. Been in the National Theater”. At this time I was 19

We spent the whole afternoon, at least three hours, talking about punk rock. Eventually I read for “The Corn Is Green” and at midnight that night my agent phoned me and she said “you've got the part. They saw 2000 girls and you've got the part. Katharine Hepburn wants to see you tomorrow to read the whole script”. She was just gorgeous. She told me that when she was the same age as I was, she was non-conformist. She wore men's clothes

ALAN: She did

TOYAH: She loved to wear trousers. She was criticised for it and she said the moment she met me she knew she'd met a similar soul to her and we were pretty inseparable

ALAN: Did you keep up with her afterwards?

TOYAH: I didn't keep up with her, but she wrote two books in which I featured

ALAN: Oh!

TOYAH: She said she fell in love with the fire in my eyes

ALAN: What an experience!

TOYAH: She knew I went on to become a really famous singer and she kept writing in all her books “Toyah is now a famous singer, but when I saw her she was a child with fire in her eyes”

ALAN: Talking about fire in your eyes, the fire that Katharine Hepburn had in her eyes there when you're playing opposites. The old thing is that if you play a bit of tennis and you play with somebody who's really good it lifts your game. When you're playing opposite someone like Katharine Hepburn that must lift your game?

TOYAH: It did lift my game and George Cukor, bless him, with his incredible history - because he discovered Marilyn Monroe and James Dean. He would favor Katharine in the scenes and Katharine would say (puts on Katharine’s voice) “no, George, I want the camera on Toyah here. This is her moment”

They had this amazing relationship where they would banter and barter and argue. They were both very strong people and Katharine would insist that I had close-ups where probably I wouldn't have got them in that particular kind of circumstance

ALAN: Oh! A generous performer then?


TOYAH: She was generous, she was beautiful, she was extraordinary and she taught me more about life than anyone else and I've worked with Sir Laurence Olivier (above) as well. Both of these people were so unique, and their lust for life burnt so brightly it just taught me to treasure every single moment. Every working day, I just treasure it

ALAN: There's a great chance in circumstances like that that you'll be completely overawed, intimidated and a gibbering wreck

TOYAH: I didn't know who they were (Alan cracks up laughing) I hate to say it when I met George Cukor and Katharine - I didn't know who they were. When I sat down next to Katharine she told me about the discipline you have to have. Know your lines, arrive on time, respect those above you, be polite. All of those values of early Hollywood

ALAN: They've stuck with you, haven’t they?

TOYAH: Yeah, they really have

ALAN: But then so has the music and so has one particular chap with whom you still perform. Here you are at the Isle of Wight Festival

(A clip of Toyah and Robert performing “Heroes” plays)

ALAN: Toyah Willcox alongside Robert Fripp at the Isle of Wight Festival there on guitar. Still alongside Robert Fripp, after 37 years!

TOYAH: 38!

ALAN: 38! One behind!

ROBERT has joined them in the studio

ROBERT: And last week was the 39th anniversary of our first date

TOYAH: Yeah, our very first date

ALAN: How did you meet?

TOYAH: Well, initially, we were introduced by Princess Michael of Kent at a charity event (below)

ALAN: Oh, give over! It's all name drops on this show!

TOYAH: She grabbed both of us. We'd never met and she pulled us together and said “I want a photo with both of these people”. I got a copy of that photo and it also went into the Daily Express the next day but they’d cut Robert out of it (Alan laughs) If he's badly behaved enough he always makes the papers


ALAN: Now, talking about being badly behaved, there was one instance in “Strictly Come Dancing” where you were very badly behaved. Here's an example

(A clip of Robert booing judge Craig Revel Horwood dressed as Captain Jack Sparrow for "Movie Week")

ALAN: It was hard to see it was Craig under all that beardage and whatnot. But you're sticking up your wife

ROBERT: Well, two things are involved. Firstly, Craig clearly plays the role of the panto villain so what the audience does is boo. Secondly, the principal needs to be established. If you diss my wife when I'm in the room there will be repercussions. So I stood up for the second time and booed

ALAN: Some of the work that you've done, Robert, as guitarist - astonishing work with David Bowie. You can set the record straight. We've had a discussion in here. Is it (pronounces the name differently) David Bauwie, or David Bowie?

ROBERT: Bowie I thought

TOYAH: Bowie

ALAN: That was the majority verdict that’s it Bowie. Working with people like that, from your point of view, again, as a musician, tell me about Bowie, because we don't see lots of him nowadays as much as we used to but an enormous name

ROBERT: A very charismatic man. Bowie met his wife Angie dancing, jiving, to King Crimson's first show at The Speakeasy in London

ALAN: And you were King Crimson?

ROBERT: Yes, in 1969. I met him socially in 1972 but really, until the call came in in 1977 ... I’d moved to live in New York and the call came in and it was Brian Eno on the phone. He said “I'm here in Berlin with David. I'll pass you over” and David came on and he said “do you think you can play some hairy rock and roll guitar?”

And I said, “Well, I haven't really been playing lately because I've been on a retreat, but if you're prepared to take the chance, so am I”. And the first class ticket arrived and I flew Lufthansa first class to Berlin

ALAN: To play for Bowie

ROBERT: “Heroes” by the (Berlin) wall and over there, 300 yards away, was the machine gun turret

ALAN: Oh, my goodness!

ROBERT: Looking in towards the studio. But it was a remarkable in-between time. Berlin and New York were both in-between, liminal places

TOYAH: I played for the American forces in Berlin and the tension near the wall was extraordinary at that time. So I think you doing “Heroes” with that view out of the window, knowing how close these people were encased the other side of the wall - I think it really added to that recording

ROBERT: Yes, there was an edge

ALAN: Yeah, 39 years together then - what's the secret?


TOYAH: (laughs) Well, I'd say for 30 of those we never saw each other! We were on the road separately!

ALAN: That’s the secret, just make sure it's only nine of them you are together!

TOYAH: But now we're on the road together and that's really beautiful. It's really lovely. I love looking over and seeing my husband playing and his gorgeous world accomplished playing it really thrills me. You mentioned earlier that when you work with the greats, they elevate you. Well, I look over at my husband and the love elevates me, but also his incredible ability elevates me

ROBERT: Well, I look over at my wife and within 90 seconds of walking on stage Toyah owns the space

ALAN: There you are, compliments flying. So you're doing this tour?

TOYAH: Yes, we are doing our “Toyah and Robert’s Christmas Party Tour.” We start in Edinburgh, we work our way down Sunderland, Bath, Wolverhampton, the Indigo at the O2 in London. It's quite a short tour, but it's going to be quite intense

ALAN: There's a fair chance you'll still be together when you get to the end of it if it's a short one

TOYAH: Please! (they all cackle)

ALAN: Toyah and Robert, thank you both very much, lovely to see you!