TOYAH ON
VERY VERY SHERRIE
WITH SHERRIE HEWSON
27.1.2026
SHERRIE: I just want to say how excited I am because we've got (on the podcast) the most iconic singer that this country's had, the most talented woman. I can't tell you all the things this woman has done. Please welcome the wonderful Toyah Willcox. Hello, Toyah!
TOYAH: Yay! I am so excited, Sherry, firstly, to be back with you, but also I love Rhyl and I'm playing Lytham St Annes on the 29th of August. It's not being announced yet. And I have a huge announcement connected to Blackpool in August as well
SHERRIE: Can you tell us about your huge announcement in Blackpool or not yet?
TOYAH: I can't. I've been in Blackpool virtually every month doing the planning of this. In a week's time I'm filming the event. It's really, really lovely and when it hits I'm so proud of what is going to happen. I took my husband up to Blackpool last month. I don't think he's ever been there. I drove him down the promenade and he said "Oh, this is amazing. I love it"
SHERRIE: It is! The Blackpool Tower is one of the most wonderful places. I look at that tower every day and it's a different color. I love it. But I have to tell you something. I was Toyah Willcox in "The Russ Abbott Show" (A British sketch comedy series 1979 - 1996)(Toyah laughs) I couldn't send you the photo, so I'm going to show you this now. Can you see that?
TOYAH: Oh, you look fantastic!
SHERRIE: (It was) 1982
TOYAH: You look wonderful. That's a great look!
SHERRIE: I sang “It's A Mystery” but very, very badly because I can't sing. So everybody in the studio had to run off with their fingers in their ears but I was so proud to be you!
TOYAH: Oh, thank you. Did you have the lisp?
SHERRIE: I tried but I can't do what you can do with that lisp, because that's too sexy. I think it's fantastic. I'm not sexy. You are. But what I think is amazing about your story is your husband. I think your husband is just incredible. I've always watched him, the best guitarist ever. Robert Fripp. How long have you've been together?
TOYAH: 40 years on May 16th (Toyah and Robert on their wedding day, above)
SHERRIE: 40 years! What's that saying ... "you would've got out earlier if you'd killed somebody?”
TOYAH: I know but because he's always been touring the longest we've lived together was in lockdown. We loved that. We shared this house. I now have my own home again. We've always had separate homes. (We've) never shared a bank account and maybe that's the secret -
SHERRIE: But you share a bed?
TOYAH: Yeah
SHERRIE: But that's different. Must be complex if you're not in the same house!
TOYAH: He's doing really well (now), but he had a heart attack last May. He's retired so he's mainly going to be doing producing and writing but he won't tour again. Now he's around permanently and I'm thinking when is he going to go on tour?
SHERRIE: “I want him out of here!”
TOYAH: I want to be able to think!
SHERRIE: What was that you did in lockdown? Was it lunch something?
TOYAH: “Sunday Lunch”
SHERRIE: Yes, so tell me about that?
TOYAH: It's still going strong. It started in lockdown as a connection with our fans and also a connection with people who didn't know what on earth was going on - who were actually stranded in different countries. So we just started reaching out and our first post had 100,000 visits. Last summer we were up to 150 million people visiting and we've had 17 million people in the last measuring period. It's just going up and up and up. We don't understand why
SHERRIE: Well, obviously people love listening to it. What do you talk about? Well, not boring things, obviously
TOYAH: Actually what we're incredibly connected to is being our full, authentic selves - especially at a time like this, when you don't know what is authentic about what you see. So on our “Upbeat Moments”, which is every Saturday at 6 pm -
SHERRIE: This is a different thing, though, isn't it? This "Upbeat Moments", because I've watched you on that. I love that. You both take it in turns, don't you?
TOYAH: Yes and we just talk about our week and how we feel. Sometimes it's been a great week, sometimes it's been a surprising week, but it's very, very normal. There's no kind of production. There's no glitz about what we do. It is literally normal ground level life, and people seem to love it. And then every Sunday we go back to “Sunday Lunch”, which is completely outrageous most of the time
SHERRIE: Really? I've only seen your "Upbeats". I haven't seen your "Sunday Lunch". I'll watch it
TOYAH: Well, put it this way: I don't do nudity anymore. I'm 68 and honestly this body needs to be covered now. But during lockdown I looked amazing! I looked the best I've looked in my life at the age of 62 but that's all changing very quickly now. "Sunday Lunch" is music. It's Robert on guitar and it's some ridiculous scenario in the kitchen. We've got a wonderful one this Sunday. It's going to outrage people
SHERRIE: Don't tell us. Let people watch. That's exciting, though, isn't it? Your career amazes me because you've gone from this punk girl that we know, that I joined in with, to do films and you've done television, narration. Do you like narrating?
TOYAH: Yeah. Love it
SHERRIE: You did "Teletubbies", didn't you?
TOYAH: Yeah, it was just two lines. I did it as a favor to my friend Dan Wood, the creator of Ragdoll Productions. (Puts on the Teletubbies voice) “Over the hills and far away, Teletubbies come out to play. The sun setting in the sky, Teletubbies say goodbye”. Before then I was 100% of all of the voices on “Brum” (a British kids TV series 1991 - 2002) (above) I did “Pob” (a British kids show "Pob's Programme" 1985 - 1990) with Nigel Kennedy
And I've done lots of nature documentaries. Now I write “Toyah's Wonderful World Of Weird”, which is a short story series that I write and then I narrate to camera. I try to do one a month
SHERRIE: What about animation? Have you done animation voices? I love animation. Any chance I get in to do a voice I do it
TOYAH: I don't think I have
SHERRIE: You should
TOYAH: I don't remember. I'll look into it
SHERRIE: It's about your lifestyle. You can create your own lifestyle around it. Because there's no travelling anywhere and now you're back living on your own there's no excuse
TOYAH: I'm travelling a lot this year. I'm doing 49 dates of a storytelling tour, right the breadth of the UK. That starts in March in Chelmsford
SHERRIE: When you say a storytelling tour - what do you actually mean by that?
TOYAH: I have a book out called "Meteorite", which is a visual biography. It's just the most beautiful book and that is exclusively available on the tour. So I'm going to be doing two acts on the tour. I do five songs per act. I have two guitarists, one either side of me and I tell the stories from the book
SHERRIE: And do you sing?
TOYAH: Yeah, I'll be doing five songs per act
SHERRIE: Wow! I was saying about the world we live in now - it's a very difficult world for us all. You have to find something else in your life and create it. If you look at yourself there's plenty of stuff in there. You've just got to get it out and do things and that's what you're doing
TOYAH: Totally agree. I think it's a challenge that faces everybody every moment in time. I love to work and I admire you doing panto (mime). I stopped panto 12 years ago because of the introduction of weighted fire doors in theatres. I was tearing all of my tendons just opening the fire doors. I said to my agent I've either got to be on the stage or the side of the stage 100% of the time. I cannot continually open these fire doors
I was doing so much damage to my shoulders that we made the decision that unless I can be in a dressing room right by the wings I can't do that again. I did panto for 18 years and I did fabulous pantos. They were so exciting with great cast members. I loved it but I just can't put myself in a situation where I need surgery after doing 92 shows
SHERRIE: I know you have had problems in your life and surgery problems. How is that now?
TOYAH: It's absolutely fine. I've had surgery successes. I did "Strictly (Come Dancing)" (a British celebrity dance competition show, above) last year. I would like to have done it 20 years earlier. So I did "Strictly" with a prosthetic in my hip and feet that are completely restructured. It was very painful in those shoes
But actually I found that "Strictly" made me the healthiest I've ever been. I felt really empowered and fabulous. I loved the training. I loved being with the team in the studio. My goodness, it was the best in the world. But I think if I did it 20 years earlier people could've seen how I originally moved
SHERRIE: What you could do?
TOYAH: Yes
SHERRIE: My mother and father were ballroom dancers. Particularly my mother was an amazing ballroom dancer but I always say there is a limit and there is a time - and it's not always the right time. It's the same with anything like "Dancing On Ice" (a British celebrity ice dancing competition) and "Strictly". You have to know your limits, otherwise you can be injured quite easily. I know people who did "Ice" who were injured
TOYAH: Both in ice and ballroom dancing you're equal to Olympians. I saw them (the professional dancers on "Strictly Come Dancing") in the pain that you see professional ballet dancers in. They work through this constant pain barrier and the timing of what they do, the positions of what they do. It's miraculous
SHERRIE: I did ballet up to the age of 17 when I went on to do drama school and I didn't do ballet again. I remember watching the blood coming out of my ballet shoes as I was on pointe. So I know that pain. I look at "Strictly" now and I think people don't realise how hard it is
TOYAH: And they have blood in their shoes. That's dedication. It's incredible
SHERRIE: But you enjoyed it, though?
TOYAH: I loved the process and the being in the bubble of it. I've never come against such a tide of hate from outside
SHERRIE: What do you mean by tide of hate?
TOYAH: My memory of me actually being in the public forum of "Strictly" - well, put it this way - my lawyer has never been so busy with with fake accusations and all of that. I've never experienced anything like it. Have you done "Strictly"?
SHERRIE: No
TOYAH: It's unbelievable. I thought I'd go in there and I would be able to go on a journey and win people (over). My experience from the outside world was very hostile, but the actual bubble - and being in that bubble was one of the best things I've ever experienced
SHERRIE: Did you come to terms with it, though? Did you come to terms with the hatred that you got? Did you understand why? There can't be a reason for it, surely?
TOYAH: I think it's just a very common side of social media. I can never understand why Meghan Markle is hit on. She's done nothing wrong that I can see. Her wedding was beautiful. Everyone loved her in this country and then suddenly it flipped. Being in that experience, which is like standing in front of a tidal wave, I thought oh, OK and I just didn't respond to it. I don't think you can feed it. It's click bait. So I didn't respond at all. I just let it go
I've always had a great legal team. There was one story when I left, where we were straight to Reuters (news agency) and they were brilliant. They pulled the story because we just said "look at what I said and look at how it's being reinterpreted". They agreed and pulled the story. But I've always been really hot on that. You know what it's like in the public eye. You just don't let something grow if it's not true
SHERRIE: There is a moment in your life when you go "do you know what? Blank it. Because I'm not interested"
TOYAH: Our time is precious. Your time is precious. I'm not wasting time on hate for anything
SHERRIE: They're what you call "keyboard warriors". They've got nothing to do apart from sit on that keyboard all day
TOYAH: I think it's something else also. It's an immaturity of experience. You and I - we've put our feet down on the ground. We've travelled. We've worked really hard. We've suffered exhaustion during stage runs. We've had a lot of experience
SHERRIE: And survived
TOYAH: And survived. We are survivors. Sometimes I was hearing things back because I was only told about things that I needed to legally jump on. They said "it's children. You don't respond to children. They don't know any better. They are reacting because they are a fan of someone else. They'll do anything to put you lower down the leaderboard"
I have an incredible media team. If you've got 150 million people watching you in the world, you have a great media team. They could find where everything was coming from. We can actually pinpoint every address. It was very young children who love "Strictly". They love the professional dancers. They were playing a game and I just didn't join into that
SHERRIE: Do you think it's the same on things like the jungle ("I'm A Celebrity Get Me Out Of Here!", a British celebrity survival show) (above)?
TOYAH: When I did the jungle 2003 we didn't have this social media. I had no idea what was going on. But similarly when I got home from the jungle, you then see the press cuttings and the judgment about your physical body and all of that. It never occurred to me in the jungle how extreme opinions become. But again, our time is too precious. We are both very positive people. I'm not going to waste an ounce of time on this planet dealing with irrational responses
SHERRIE: No, absolutely. I've always said that you have an edge about you. I hope I've got an edge about me. It's like don't mess with me because you'll come up far worse
TOYAH: I've got a meeting today with an ex editor of "Now" magazine and Australian Vogue. I met them two weeks ago. This is about a new project. I'm exactly how I am with you today. At the end of the meeting she said "god, you've got a hard edge!" It's just survival
SHERRIE: Good! You need a hard edge and you need to get out there and tell them exactly what you think. Why wouldn't you? Why would you accept anything else? You and I have been around too long to put up with any bullshit. That's the end of the story. That's what I always say
Do you have any regrets at all in your life? Do you go "what if I had done that?" Because I often do that in my head at night when I'm lying in bed. I won't sleep because I have insomnia
TOYAH: I have insomnia. I sleep between about 6 and 9 am
SHERRIE: I don't know if you do this but I wake up and know exactly what time it is
TOYAH: Yes, I always wake up at midnight
SHERRIE: I wake at midnight. Then I'll wake at 2.30, then probably 4.30, 4.45 and I know exactly what time it is
TOYAH: It's when I watch movies. I was working with Carol Vorderman yesterday -
SHERRIE: Really?! She's funny, isn't she?
TOYAH: She's fabulous! But the night before I couldn't sleep so I just stayed up watching movies. I watched “The Piano”, I watched “The Eyes Of Tammy Faye”, these fabulous movies. But let's get back to regrets. This is something I will never be able to let go of and I'm praying reincarnation is possible. I really regret that I never was encouraged to study music theory technically further than I did
So I really regret not stamping my feet with my parents and saying "I want piano lessons, I want guitar lessons. I want theory lessons". I am a natural musician. I'm a natural singer. I have perfect pitch but it's taken me years to actually get music through my fingers. I regret it so much. I have this present day argument with people because AI will wipe out the music industry if we let it. But for a dyslexic, it's the most valuable tool in the world
SHERRIE: I can understand that completely
TOYAH: So just before Christmas and I'm really going to name-drop here - I was invited to Clarence House to meet Queen Camilla. I went with Robert and we walked there with the professor who created AI and won the Nobel Prize for it. I was walking down The Mall and I said to him "I am so grateful for AI, because dyslexic minds just race too quickly. I can get all of that info into Dictate (a speech-to-text system) and into AI at the speed I think and it's made things possible for me." And twice he said to me "you will be replaced". I said "no, it's making me grow". And he said "you will be replaced". He was adamant
SHERRIE: But did he explain why and how?
TOYAH: Yes. We've all become algorithms, which is why I will not respond to hate. Hate creates the most reward experience. It creates the most emotional responses. Algorithms feed on this. If you tell AI something and it draws that instant aggressive response, they're going to keep you aggressive. So with me and my relationship with AI is getting the right words because I am "Mrs. Malarop" (a character in a play "The Rivals" (1775) that uses the wrong words)
It's getting the message across, getting it out of there because it's been locked in my head thanks to not taking education seriously and becoming a more expressive artist. He said that algorithms will just build you, replace you and ignore what they don't get reward from. I'm paraphrasing but that was in the conversation
SHERRIE: Did that frighten you?
TOYAH: I thought I felt a bit bullish about it actually, because it's helping me be super creative. I just persevered. I said "you've got to bear in mind, there's people with educational difficulties that are really going to benefit from this. They will have a normal life because of this". I was bullish. I think he actually gave up on me in the end
SHERRIE: Good. That's why we have to move forward and you can't take (on) people like that. I know you have to take them seriously, but you have to be your own person and go forward
TOYAH: We have to be authentic. I'm fascinated by the Beckham story at the moment about Brooklyn Beckham who's estranged. I actually feel for him when he said in his statement that he needs to be his authentic self. I totally understand it
SHERRIE: I understand that. But Cruz (the younger brother) is going along with him now. Look at the Beckhams and the life they've lived. It's not a normal life, is it? So they have their own way
TOYAH: They're a family, they live in the public eye. That's tough in itself. We've seen what can happen to what appear to be very beautiful people. They are suddenly in the arena and facing the lions and I don't understand why
SHERRIE: I think it's the world we live in. If you're an insomniac, everything, when you hit that pillow, starts to go through your head. You then start to create this really weird world that we live in, and you have to come out of it. Then you have to wake up, if you've had some sleep, and live this life that we live - which is why I'm fascinated by all the things you do. Noel Fielding is a friend of yours, isn't he?
TOYAH: Oh, I love Noel!
SHERRIE: What was the weird film you did with him?
TOYAH: “Ahhhhhhhh!” where we all played humans that only talked ape.
It is totally outrageous
SHERRIE: And it's still around if you wanted to see it?
TOYAH: Yes, it's its 10th anniversary this year. You can order it. You can see it on Sky and Amazon. It is totally outrageous. I mean, it is XXX rated. But we had so much fun doing it
SHERRIE: You had a very good cast with you as well
TOYAH: The cast were incredible. Julian Barratt played my husband. Julian Rhind-Tutt played my lover. Steve Oram (below with Toyah), who's often in horror movies, was the creator, director and the lead. We had a very good fun shoot
SHERRIE: Didn't you do something with Katharine Hepburn?
TOYAH: Yes, when I was 19. It was “The Corn Is Green”, the Welsh play by Emlyn Williams. Katharine loved Wales and she wanted to produce and make this movie. She produced it with George Cukor, the director who discovered Marilyn Monroe and directed Judy Garland in "A Star Is Born". They came to England and held auditions. Katharine said she fell in love with me the moment she met me. I played the young antagonist. We went to Wales. We shot in Wales. What I loved about doing this is Katharine loved meeting real people. She would meet everyone in the villages we worked in. She would even have supper, lunch, sometimes breakfast with them
She was so generous. Her spirit was generous. When we did the interior scenes in Wembley (studios) someone broke onto the set. We were filming one of my big scenes and Katharine spotted them behind the scenery. She walked out of the scene, stopped the shoot and grabbed the person. It was my father! She said "who are you?" My father's called Beric. He said "I'm Beric, I'm Toyah's father". I was mortified and she took him to lunch!
SHERRIE: No way! Wow! I've always admired Katharine Hepburn and the fact that you've actually worked with her, because she has a strange quality. Does she really, in real life, have that kind of -
TOYAH: All the A-listers I've worked with - Lawrence Olivier, John Mills, I've worked with them all and at the National Theater as well. They all have very large auras, not egos, but auras. Aura's glow. They're fabulous to be with
SHERRIE: I knew Steve McQueen. It's a long story, so I won't bore you with it, but I met him and he had the most amazing aura. And Paul Newman, both of those guys. Just breathtaking. You couldn't speak in their presence
TOYAH: I found that with Roger Daltrey. I played his wife in a movie about 1984 ("Murder: The Ultimate Grounds For Divorce") We had to do intimate scenes and sequences and I was (pretends to stutter)
SHERRIE: You didn't go there, did you?
TOYAH: Oh, god no! I'm friends with his wife, Heather. I love men and I'm always absolutely bowled over by male beauty. Perhaps not so much now I'm older, but I've always felt so lucky as an actress to have beautiful male actors
SHERRIE: I've worked with some and I did regret not sleeping with some of them if I'd have had the chance. But did I have the chance? I don't know. I might have had the chance
TOYAH: That's never happened to me because I'm too short and too dumpy
SHERRIE: You're the same height in bed and when you stand up so it doesn't make any difference what height you are
TOYAH: Yeah but I don't have what men are looking for
SHERRIE: You do! Of course you do. It's when you look back and you think that would have been fun. I could have had a story there. But I was too shy and too silly. Harrison Ford was another one, but only because he said "do you play around?" And I didn't know what he meant
TOYAH: How long ago was that?
SHERRIE: Was that when EMI (a film and production hub) was at Borehamwood. So it would have been in the 70's. He was beautiful. Absolutely stunning. He'd sit it in the corner and contemplate what he should be doing. I'm sure he's a very different man now. I was just gobsmacked by him. He asked me out for dinner and I went, but there were 15 other women at the same table
TOYAH: Greta Scacchi (above with Toyah in 1984) told me this. Greta doing a movie in New York with him. I think it was “Indecent Proposal” (she means "Presumed Innocent", 1990) She was invited to dinner and there were 15 women around the table
SHERRIE: He obviously does this all the time. Well, not now
TOYAH: His wife was there when Greta was there. But yeah, if I was a beautiful man I'd do the same
SHERRIE: So would I. Anyway I didn't and wouldn't and couldn't and I'm a different person now. I can't now because I'm too old! Anyway, I want to talk about your book again. Tell me all about it?
TOYAH: It's already out. It's selling on Amazon and on my website (Gets the book to show Sherrie) It's my favorite color. Very beautiful. I wanted it to be visual because, as a dyslexic, visuals are stronger to me than printed word. So it's a visual autobiography. I mean, how beautiful is that?
SHERRIE: So who did all that for you?
TOYAH: This is all from my archive. I spent 10 days in Dictate meetings where we dictated my story. I had a wonderful writer called Carl. I can't remember his surname, but he put all the words together. Then I had the most astonishing book designer called Michelle, who pieced it all together. But this has all come from my private archive. It's called "Meteorite" because I love the term "shooting star". I love the term star, but I sometimes think I'm more of a meteorite than I am a glowing, perfect star
SHERRIE: It's absolutely stunning. So now you're going on this tour?
TOYAH: Yeah, the tour is stories and songs. We're doing lovely town theaters, 49 dates this year. We might put some more in in the autumn. I'm doing two movies this year. I'm the lead in both of them. Small British budgets. I've got to be available for those. But the theatre tour - I want it to be uplifting and inspirational. There's a story in my life that the book opens with. I had a very bad relationship with my mother
My mother's childhood was destroyed by her father murdering her mother. This went on to shape my life and my family's life, because none of us knew. It didn't come out till ancestry.com contacted me because the newspaper cuttings became available in the public arena. They said "you need to know this". My mother was the most pessimistic, sometimes the most cruel human being I have ever known, but she was also the most protective mother. She was a paradox. She made me, all of us, really mad. If you said to her “please don't put sugar in my tea” she'd put the whole bowl in. If you said to her you're allergic to raspberries, she would give you a bowl of raspberries. It was madness
She needed help. She needed therapy and she never asked for it. But I want my story to start with a song, which is one of my first singles called “Bird In Flight”. It's the moment I left home. When I left home I could fly. That's my story. I don't want any woe is me. The surgery ... well, I've benefited from the miracle of medicine. That's a good story. I left home. I benefited by being free. It's all good news. I want my evening to be funny. I want it to be really outrageous and it will be outrageous
SHERRIE: Going back to your mother - when she died did you look back and think if I'd have known, what could I have done?
TOYAH: Yes because I felt furiously protective towards her. When I was in my 30's I bought the family house so they didn't lose their home. Then when I hit 50, I bought them a retirement cottage on the river Avon. I was furiously protective of them. I could not understand how someone could be so dysfunctional. The two days before she lost consciousness, she was screaming for me at the hospice because I just played Manchester Pride, and I went straight to the hospice and sat with her. She needed me there, because I have faith. I don't believe in death. Death is a stupid word. Nothing dies. We just transition. We go on
She wanted me there because she just couldn't believe that something very special was about to happen. I sat with her. She had a friend in who was a devout Christian, which I never understood until after her death, when we realised her friend was trying to give us some optimism. A mother and daughter, who could not be in the same room as each other ever, we were together those last two days and it was very powerful. But I don't want my show to be about grief. I want it to be about the exceptional person I became because of circumstance
SHERRIE: It's about celebration, not grief and your mother would agree with that, wouldn't she?
TOYAH: She was a remarkable woman. She was a beautiful dancer. She danced at Lytham St. Anne's, Blackpool. My father saw her on the pier at Weston-supe-Mare. She was a remarkable woman who had her life stolen from her by her father. But let's celebrate the positive
SHERRIE: Did you know her father?
TOYAH: No, because my mother was 16 when it happened. She had a 24 hour chaperone that point on until she married my father. My father never knew why. He was never alone with her until the wedding. At the night of the wedding, the chaperone, who was a woman who lived with my mother 24/7 said “right, she's yours now” because the father was still alive and considered dangerous
SHERRIE: That's an amazing story
TOYAH: I'll have to turn it into a drama
SHERRIE: Absolutely. You should write it
TOYAH: These are the situations that made me who and what I am today. I hope I'm a positive, inspiring person
SHERRIE: You are to everybody. Also, on a lighter note, can I just say your outfits through your lifetime as Toyah Willcox are just mind-blowing! Did they come from you or somewhere else?
TOYAH: There's always a team involved
SHERRIE: But it's you, though?
TOYAH: I hope this isn't (cultural) appropriation, but I'm so inspired by Kabuki theatre and really inspired by the culture and the beliefs and the lifestyle of the Masai. Quite a few of my songs are about their rituals, which I believe are really healthy rituals - where young boys go into the wasteland and have to kill a boar and cannot come back till they've made that kill because it proves they can protect a family. I just always believed in these cultures and they're very reflective in my work and in what I wear
When I started I didn't want to be female. I wanted to be third gender, which was a non-specific gender. So all of those clothes covered me up, but they told a story. They told a story about the cultures I love. I realised by the time we got to about 1980 and I was on the movie “Quadrophenia” - if I didn't become female specific, I was not going to get work. I had to join them because I couldn't beat them at that point
SHERRIE: Were you beyond your time then? Because that's exactly what's happening now
TOYAH: I didn't want to be male or female
SHERRIE: That's quite interesting. You would have been thought of as a little bit odd, strange, mad
TOYAH: I still am! Everyone thinks I'm peculiar! As a woman I was constantly judged by having legs that weren't long and attractive and a body shape that was just too muscular. I was too short for the camera. It was always wrong, wrong, wrong. And I just went well, fuck you. I'll be non-gender
SHERRIE: "Here I am, this is what I am". I totally agree with you, but you're right - it was a (different) time, wasn't it? Now it wouldn't matter
TOYAH: It was a very different time. If you were beautiful and glamorous you would work a lot, but you'd have to put up with a lot as well. I've seen everything you have done. I love everything you have done. I love everything from “Carry On” (films) through to even "Benny Hill (Show)", but it was a (different) time
SHERRIE: This thing with woke and everything. There are warnings on things like “Dad's Army”. I find that bizarre, because what are we warning people about? What are we all supposed to be afraid of? I think it's difficult, isn't it, to know where this word woke came from, and where it sat there
But I understand and I say to people "listen - that was then - you can't wipe that out". Like what ... we're going to wipe them all out and there's going to be nothing left and we don't look back
TOYAH: And also it doesn't mean that we've remained those people
SHERRIE: No! That's what I say!
TOYAH: I don't like hearing derogatory things about the different races in the world. I think it's cruel and it always has been cruel. I've never had to say those things as an actress, thank goodness. But we were in a situation in “Quadrophenia” where beautiful, wonderful, very loved Trevor Laird was not allowed to date a white girl in the story because the film would not be distributed in the south part of America
SHERRIE: Seriously!?
TOYAH: We all talked about going on strike. We were powerless and we, as a team of actors, just came forward and said "what are you thinking? This is inhuman". But because there are these subject matters in the kind of “Love Thy Neighbour” (a 1970's sitcom that used racist language) it doesn't mean we've remained the same people. I've been on a huge educational curve because I do motivational speaking
About 15 years ago, the singer Hazel Dean's lovely daughter Stevie pointed out that if I love Boadicea, Mata Hari and all of these very white female protagonists - and I was talking about Florence Nightingale - Stevie pointed out to me that Florence wasn't the one that did all that. It was a black nurse. I've been on this massive learning curve trying to learn everything. Re-see it through the eyes of today, because I had a very white education. There's nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong with changing how you see the world
SHERRIE: Yeah but you do it in a certain way. Not with aggression, not with hatred - like you said, your "Strictly" journey. People are too quick to fire up and go "yes, but if we'd have done that" or "don't do that". Life isn't that. It's a gentle journey. Don't fight everything that you see
When I did the “Russ Abbot's Saturday Madhouse” - there are things in that you couldn't show now because it is wrong, but you don't fight back and go "oh, that's terrible. Oh, be very careful" because otherwise you're fighting yourself and we'll all end up like that
TOYAH: Look at the other side of that coin. You and I have so much experience and so much knowledge that we would really like to share. I'm often asked by very young students how do you get into the music industry? How do you get the experience of engineering in a studio? So I tell them the best, most active studios to apply to knowing that most people can do everything at home now on one computer
Young people need to experience life out there, to experience what it's like to be with a diva in a studio, in front of a camera. You have to handle people because you are going to be working, if you're lucky, with very successful people who have time for no one but themselves. You've got to be able to handle that
SHERRIE: You've got to give these kids some life skills. If a young actress says to me "how do I start?" I say go to a theatre. Go and brush the stage. Go make tea. Go and watch those people and never stop watching. Never stop learning. In my great age now I still learn. Every time I see anything I'm learning. It might not be good, it might be bad, but I'll learn
Don't sit at home and go "I can do this all on my phone". These bloody phones. They're a nightmare with teenagers now. I've got grandchildren who will speak to each other on the phone and they're just there next to each other. Put them down! But life is strange now with that
TOYAH: I don't phone anyone now. I used to phone friends all the time. We do go out to lunch a lot but just having a relaxed phone call doesn't happen anymore in my life - which is very weird
SHERRIE: It's best to go out for lunch and have a glass of wine rather than get on that blooming phone. I can't stand it, because I just think I've said too much and then I've sent a text and I didn't mean that. But I can't wait for your tour. So are you looking forward to it?
TOYAH: I'm really looking forward to it. I like being with my musicians. We're a team that laughs a lot. I have been known - if the stage needs sweeping, I'll sweep it myself. I love being in theatres. I love the community of theatre and I love the audience because every night is unique. Every audience brings a unique energy into that show and I get a lot from it
SHERRIE: Or not, because you get some audiences and you go "oh, I've got to fight you. I've got to get you back. I've got to bring you in." You do have audiences that go "come on then, entertain me"
TOYAH: I've actually had audiences that break out in a fight. I've had it twice. It happened once at Otley Courthouse. There was two hen parties in that broke out into a fight and we had to stop the show.
And then I was doing “Now That's What I Call A Musical” (an 80's themed musical, 2025, above) and there was a certain city where fights were breaking out. We just laughed about it, but the show had to stop
SHERRIE: Oh, no! That's the best I've ever heard because I haven't had that. I was in a show once and about four rows back there was a man and a woman being quite intimate. I thought somebody has to do something about this, because it's disturbing. I watched the usherette tapping on his shoulder and go "stop this, please". They acted like how could anybody see them? Like they're watching television or something. It was weirdest thing I've ever seen
TOYAH: I did have a child conceived in front of the sound desk at Hammersmith Odeon in 1982 and that little girl was called Toyah. They were very proud of this
SHERRIE: I love that. We've both been through very weird experiences, but we're still here. You know "The Greatest Showman" - you remind me of that song “This Is Me” and that's who you are. You're fabulous
TOYAH: I don't think I could be anyone else, to be honest
SHERRIE: As I said at the beginning you are the most iconic singer and the most diverse person. You have so much in you still to come and give (A jingle plays) And now the "Very, Very Sherrie" podcast proudly presents our special guest's charity shout-out
TOYAH: I always back my hometown's food banks. People can only function in this world if they're well fed. If they've got other problems to deal with, like paying for the heating, paying their rent - they can't do that if they're not well fed. So Pershore Food Bank is what I donate to. I sometimes donate my working fees to Pershore Food Bank at every opportunity. So that's my charity
SHERRIE: Fabulous. It's been so wonderful to see you. You still look as beautiful as ever. You're stunning, Toyah. Absolutely stunning
TOYAH: So are you Sherrie and if “Benidorm” (a British sitcom (2007 - 2018) Sherrie was in) comes back I'm gonna fight to be in it
SHERRIE: I shall fight for you to be in it. I shall come and see you in Lytham. Good luck! Bye, bye, bye!
Listen to the interview HERE
