TOYAH ON
BBC RADIO ONE
WITH JANICE LONG
19.11.1983

JANICE LONG: You’ve been listening to everybody else (in the studio while waiting her turn), haven’t you?

TOYAH: Oh, I was listening to Jonathan (Perkins), it’s the first time I’ve met him you see …

JANICE: He’s all right, isn’t he?

TOYAH: I was very pleased, he’s great

JANICE: You’ve had a really busy week because we’ve been seeing you on television - I mean you did the Russel Harty thing the other night -

TOYAH: Been driven around in a bloody hearse all week (laughing)

JANICE: "This Morning"  . . . Do you get sick to death of doing these things?

TOYAH: No, I love doing them, but this week has been pretty hectic because I’ve got to get it all done before I go on tour next Friday. I don’t get sick of it at all, it’s really nice to meet people like tonight I met Phil Lynott for the first night … Whoar, I was starstruck, it was great!

JANICE: You say you’re starting a tour next week. Do you mind touring or do you find it a bit of drag?

TOYAH: The traveling gets me down, the tedious way you go and get in the coach at nine in the morning and drive all day. I’d much rather be put to sleep and wake up at the venue but I love the actual gigging and once I’m into it I’m wild!

JANICE: What do you describe yourself as?

TOYAH: Prat? (both laugh)

JANICE: You do so many things, it’s very difficult to sort of say what you are?

 

TOYAH: Oh god, I’m just me. I get very bored very quickly and that’s why I keep moving and keep disorientating myself because if I allow myself security of any form then I'll just stop and I’ll lie back and start sucking my thumb. And the reason I do disorientate myself is to keep myself on my toes
 
JANICE: Do you always have a goal?

TOYAH: Yeah. I have to have a challenge, I have to have something that really bothers me. I love the competition within the music industry. At the same time I like peace and the safeness when you’re making a film. And it’s lovely to have those two things to fight against. It’s really good fun

JANICE: But a lot of people could say well, you’ve done it all now, you can sit back and -

TOYAH: Ah, I haven’t done anything yet! I don’t consider I’ve done anything yet. I mean musically I’m still discovering myself and I’ve still got a lot, I feel, I want to prove. And I still have a lot I want to write about. Acting wise, well, God, I’m only up the first rung of the ladder. I’ve got many miles to go yet till I feel that I’ve achieved anything

JANICE: Now, you’ve survived haven't you, where a lot of people have disappeared. When you first came on the scene it was shock horror “have you seen Toyah, did you see her hair, have you seen this girl blah blah blah”. And you’ve actually come through all of that and it’s a respectable Toyah now, mums and dads and everybody talks about Toyah -

TOYAH: I must admit that that generation really like me but I don’t think I’m that respectable. I don’t try to offend anyone deliberately just to get my name noticed or anything like that because human life is number one and I see no point in putting anything or anyone down

But I’ve got a lot to prove and as far as acting goes or if someone offered me a role that was a shocking role, violent or bloody or horrific, I’d take it. If I felt the role was good enough. I’m not into being the Des O’Connor or Val Doonican of the acting world or the rock’n’roll world

JANICE: Will it probably be that society’s attitudes have changed?

TOYAH: I’ve become accepted. I mean in a way that’s the reason I got rid of the dyed hair was that people were starting to dye their hair. So I felt right, I’m going to move on now because basically I just don’t want to be like anyone else. I’ve always had a sort of allergy towards looking like my best friends

Even at school I always had to fight to be different from everyone else. Whether I did it through bad habits or they way I looked I never wanted to be part of the run-of-the-mill crowd
 
JANICE: So you were you a trendsetter?

TOYAH: Not so much a trendsetter, just a complete outcast when it came down to schooling. But now that has become a trendsetting issue for me, people think I’m setting a trend

 

JANICE: What sort of kid were you? Were you very arty?

TOYAH: I became arty. I started off in life as a complete failure - had a really bad limp and a really bad lisp. I was in hospital so much within the first ten years of my life that I lost a lot of schooling

When I went back to school at the age of eleven I became very involved in art. In fact it was the only way I could explain to the teachers what was in my head - trough drawing pictures and through poetry. And my English teacher was so disturbed by my poetry she wanted me to see a psychiatrist

JANICE: Really?

TOYAH: I mean it got that bad because ... my mind was full of perversions and monsters. I didn’t understand why they were there. I was very honest about them and I used to frighten the hell out of people - especially my parents - with the fact that I felt I saw things and heard things and I wasn’t scared to write about them or draw them

JANICE: So did anybody nurture that? Or did they say “leave her alone, she’s a bit odd that one”?

TOYAH: No, the only person that wanted to develop it was my art teacher. I got banned from art when I was 14, because I was misbehaving at school so the head mistress thought the only way to get her - to control this one is to ban her from her favourite subject. From then on I just, hah, I didn’t do a thing. I didn’t do a thing except break all the rules

JANICE: What did you want to do when you were at school? I mean what were your ambitions?

TOYAH: My ambitions from the age of nine were to act and sing. Priority was to sing but I was so scared of singing because the lisp was so bad I couldn’t (laughs) I was scared of talking to people even! So I thought the only way to conquer these nerves was to do it through the acting and I knew I could act because I told lies every single minute of the day! (Janice laughs)

And I was very confident on that field. It wasn’t until two years into the existence of the Toyah band or the (guitarist) Joel Bogen (2nd from the right, below) - Toyah Willcox partnership that I could actually walk on stage and sing

JANICE: Did they let you into school plays?

TOYAH: I ran the school plays. It’s the one thing I became interested in. I used to direct them and play the lead and design all the posters and the programs for

JANICE: Incredible

 

TOYAH: They’d let me do that because no one else was interested

JANICE: Did drama college ever enter your mind? I mean did you go to drama college?

TOYAH: Yeah, I went to drama college for a year. They said I’d never get anywhere because I was so stylised. I started dying my hair when I was 14 and when I was drama school I had pink hair and they said “oh, God this woman’s never going to get anywhere looking like that” and then after a year I got a job at the National Theatre, moved down to London and never went back ... really

JANICE: OK, we shall continue our conversation in a moment but this is “Rebel Run”

SONG: Rebel Run

JANICE: Toyah and “Rebel Run”. Were you a bit of a loner then as a kid? I mean you must’ve been?

TOYAH: Yeah, but I wasn’t a forced loner, it was what I wanted. I didn’t want to talk about bra sizes and things like that (laughs) All the birds seem to talk about in my school was bra sizes and boyfriends! I was more interested in - well, I was terribly into ghost hunting and terribly into motorbikes and absolutely obsessed with death

JANICE: Really?

TOYAH: Oh God, I was really obsessed with it

JANICE: You were saying before that you had your own language, or your own dictionary?

TOYAH: What I did within the English lessons was I created a language called the “Squelch” language and only I kept the translation for it so all my poetry went into this language at one point. And gave the whole book to my English teacher for sort of my mock O Level thing and I said “there you go” and she took it away and she was so disturbed reading a whole book with no English in it whatsoever …

She really thought I had to be put away at that point. And yeah, I’ve still got it now. And part of that book had a poem about Marc Bolan’s death in - even though I think it’s about six years premature to his death called the “Bolan Rock” ... which Smash Hits have gone and printed as a part of the Smash Hits yearbook

JANICE: What was that - was that something that you saw?

TOYAH: I called it the “Electric Funeral” because I was madly into Black Sabbath when I was about 12. And madly and passionately in love with Marc Bolan. And Marc Bolan used to go round spreading rumours that he was dying of cancer when I was about 12 so I wrote this poem called the “Electric Funeral”

I was saying that it’s inevitable, that we all have to die. He’s going to the great rock’n’roll graveyard in the sky and it’s like really corny but I put in some of my own language so my English mistress just thought I’d flipped, man …

JANICE: I wonder when you pop off will they say Toyah was a genius?

TOYAH: I doubt it -

JANICE: The way they do with these great composers and great artists?

TOYAH: I’ve kept all my diaries. I used to keep diaries from the age of nine onwards and I occasionally read them and they are quite strange. I definitely was very distorted. My idea of life was incredibly distorted. I used go ghost hunting, I used look for things that frighten me and I was always looking for frights and I’ve written it all down and it’s quite weird really

JANICE: What about now though?

TOYAH: Oh, I’m totally different now! I mean I still like my solitude, I still like to be alone. When I go home those doors are locked and no-one comes in. And I’m still into science fiction and the supernatural but not in that sort of directionless way when I was a kid

JANICE: Do you still know people who knew you when you were a kid?

TOYAH: No, no …

JANICE: I wonder what they think of you now?

TOYAH: A lot of them - I bump into kids in the audience “hey, I was at glass with you” but you can’t really have a discussion with them when they’re in the audience and you’re on stage. And there’s a lot of respect there from them. But I know at the time I wasn’t very likeable. I was deliberately weird and I always kept myself at a distance

JANICE: Well, let’s talk about your acting. You did "Trafford Tanzi" and it really took off. I was wondering if you saw the performance, the one and only performance with Debbie Harry in America?

TOYAH: No, but I heard a lot about it and apparently it wasn’t bad. I just think the critics that night were out to kill her! And they did. That’s really cruel of the theatre critics because from what I’ve heard from people that were that night she wasn’t bad at all

The thing the critics were against was her trying to be arty and she’s so sly and petite they refused to believe she could wrestle. But my God, if they thought that of her - what do they think of me? I mean I’m about foot shorter than she is

JANICE: But it must’ve been a sort of grueling task for you because you managed to fit in the music side of things as well, didn’t you?

TOYAH: Yeah, we made the album ("Love Is The Law") at the same time. Joel Bogen, my lead guitarist and Simon Darlow, the keyboard player, moved into my house for about a month to write and arrange the album which meant when I came back after the play I could put down rough vocals
 
And that’s the way I wrote most of the lyrics for the album - I was improvising them through the night after doing "Tanzi" when I was on a natural high after doing the play anyway. It was a very interesting way to work, very upside down. It was very hard work for five months because it meant I was doing the play at night and the album after the play so I was working through the night

 

JANICE: You do think you work better under pressure? 

TOYAH: Yeah, definitely. I mean God, I was really under pressure. This year’s been the busiest year ever for me. But I really, I really fed off it. I really benefited from it in some strange way. Physically and mentally

JANICE: What about your family, are they into what you do? Especially when you work with people like Laurence Olivier?

TOYAH: Oh gosh, yeah. Well, my mum and dad are my number one fans and I’d say my brother and sister are very protective towards my mum and dad because they’re getting to the age where they can’t fend for themselves anymore

And I really appreciate their friendship whereas when I was kid I would never talk to them. But I love them dearly now. My sister I see a lot because she lives in London but my brother I only see once a year. But he’s a great fan. And I benefit from them, they never criticise me!

JANICE: Awww!

TOYAH: I can’t believe it! I remember going home to my mum thumping me because of the colour of my hair and now she won’t even criticise me if she wanted to. It’s really nice

JANICE: Great. So what are your new goals? Do you have any new plans to perhaps write plays yourself or … ?

TOYAH: In the future I want to write, direct and especially get into lighting and computer techniques

JANICE: Really?

TOYAH: I believe, even though it’s really sad, that we’ve got a new form of entertainment out of the computer because it is taking over from cinema, theatre and in a way a lot of popular music. And I think if we can form a dimension within the computer language. There is some very exciting musical entertainment to gain within computer technology

And I think the generation of tomorrow are so far advanced age wise than we ever were that they want a form of entertainment that isn’t patronising their mental talents

I’m thinking in that way. I don’t know how I’m going to do it but it’s a form of 3D music that can be done across the video screen through computer keyboards that kids can link from household to household and perform their own music. But the music is pre-written in the computer banks through one main computer but it’s like scratch records, you can scratch your one tune into another

JANICE: Yes

TOYAH: I’m looking into a way that you can type out your own musical phrases from music that’s already well known. It sounds crazy but I can picture it my head. I know a lot of people who are into computers and I just want to muck about and see what comes out of it

JANICE: It sounds incredible and a conversation I’d like to continue with you. But what about the immediate future? You were mentioning to me earlier about going to America?

 

TOYAH: Yeah, well we’re in America. We play a week in New York in the New Year and that will be our first time over there, like Jonathan Perkins, really. I’m quite scared about it but at the same time I don’t think America is the be all and end all of one’s career. It’s a little more special to me because of the acting side as well but I’ll take it or leave, as it comes

JANICE: OK, now before you go you’ve got to give us a question for a competition

TOYAH: Well yeah, har har, just to see if people have been listening or … that’s if everyone didn’t turn off when “I Want To Be Free” came on. The question is: who’s supporting us on the tour I’m about to start on Friday? And if anyone wants the price will be tickets to the nearest venue that they live at

JANICE: And that’s to test if you’ve been listening or not … You’ve mentioned it so many times they should know the answer. Who is supporting Toyah on the tour which starts next Friday? And we will give tickets away to your nearest venue. Toyah, it’s been fascinating talking to you

TOYAH: Thank you.

JANICE: This is your current single “The Vow”

SONG: The Vow

You can listen to the interview HERE

TOYAH ON
BBC RADIO ONE
ROCK ON
THE CHANGELING
29.5.1982

SONG: Castaways

RICHARD SKINNER: That was “Castaways” from the Toyah LP  "The Changeling". The idea of "The Changeling", the actual title of it is obviously perfect for the kind of changing the imagery that you’ve come up with in the last three years -

TOYAH: Yeah, but it’s also something … this album is intense as far as the lyrics go because it’s sort of multi meaning. I’m going through a phase at the moment where I’m positive certain people on this planet are not human. I walk down the street and I think "that’s a changeling, it’s got to be a changeling"

RICHARD: What sort of people?

TOYAH: I think the day of the alien is really about to approach. The day of the new messiah being here, the day of aliens making themselves present is about to happen. That’s sort of something that I believe in because it makes me happy. It it sort of satisfies my mind -

RICHARD: Who will the messiah be then?

TOYAH: I’m not telling you that

RICHARD: Getting rather profound at the moment

TOYAH: Yeah, it’s getting too profound

RICHARD: You’re not telling me then?

TOYAH: No, you’ll know soon enough (laughs) But "The Changeling" sort of - I believe that at some point aliens - they’re very close to human form - can possibly come down here for a holiday and have a good laugh at us. "The Changeling" sort of fits in with that image as well -

RICHARD: Are you a great science fiction reader?

TOYAH: I love it, I love it -

RICHARD: Funny enough I get the impression from these lyrics that there is a fair amount of sort of -

TOYAH: It’s sort of my religion really. You have these beliefs that keep you going, they keep you believing in mankind and science fiction does that for me whereas the bible does it for lot of other people

I just love fantasy and to me - why on earth do people talk about fairies in the woods, not fairies in nightclubs (Richard laughs) but fairies in the woods because they must’ve existed in the first place and the same thing with dragons -
 

RICHARD: Why must’ve fairies existed?

TOYAH: And the Loch Ness monster - because people don’t come out of the blue and go “oh, I’m going to invent a dragon, make me a lot of money”

RICHARD: But people find them interesting -  

TOYAH: But these things, dragons and fairies, have been around for before printing was invented. I just believe they’re there, the little people are there. I like to believe they’re there because I don’t think human beings are the superior race. I put dolphins first, then the little people and them human beings, I suppose

RICHARD: What kind of things - I mean of lot of your songs seem quite sort of pantomime and picturebook -

TOYAH: Watch it! Not pantomime

RICHARD: It’s not, it’s not (Toyah laughs), it’s getting a bit dangerous in here! But did you used to read a lot of stories when you were young?

TOYAH: I tried to read, I didn’t have to read when I was young because I could invent things in my own head and I still can. If I’m tediously bored, I’ll just turn off and go into my own mind and dream up a fantasy, whatever I want

RICHARD: You tend to go through certain ... of ancient civilisations and things, I mean the last LP "Anthem" -

TOYAH: It’s a phase -

RICHARD: Sort of Egypt -

TOYAH: It’s a phase, I go through phases. I’m sort of ... I don’t know - "Sheep Farming In Barnet" - it was definitely my space age. "Blue Meaning" was just plain depression

“Anthem” was sort of middle age, medieval times and this new album "The Changeling" is a mixture, and conglomeration of depression, space age and the druids. As you say, the middle ages. It’s a mixture of everything

Because the song “The Druids” is all about that, it’s about all earth’s magic and space technology and pagan man thrown into one. And it’s about this meeting to decide who owns which planet, which is what goes on on this singular little speck of dust in the atmosphere, as to who owns which island …

SONG: The Druids
 
RICHARD: “The Druids”, third track from the new Toyah LP "The Changeling". Now I think the last time you were on this programme was about the time of “Sheep Farming In Barnet”?

TOYAH: Yeah, it must be about three years ago

RICHARD: Yeah. Obviously since then rather a lot has happened. I was reading something last week, it said if Toyah started wearing wellington boots, everyone would

TOYAH: Really?

 

RICHARD: Yeah! I think it’s a slight exaggeration but there is a grain of truth. It’s an indication that you have become enourmously successful and influential in that time. Is there any reason - what would you tribute this to? If there was one thing -

TOYAH: I wouldn’t say that I’m enormously successful but I’m seen a tremendous amount. So if I started growing a moustache, probably all the women would want one because I have this habit of being seen everywhere at once!

But I wouldn’t say the whole of England necessarily loves me … (both laugh) I think I give the whole of England a laugh. Each time they see me it’s “oh, God it’s that weirdo again!” (both laugh) No comment, smash! (slaps hand on table) (Toyah laughs)

RICHARD: Well, there is a certain similarity between you and the careers of Adam (Ant) and Gary Numan. You started out at the same time being fairly unpopular -

TOYAH: Yeah -

RICHARD: In the general press -

TOYAH: Yeah -

RICHARD: And took no notice of it -

TOYAH: Yeah, but the difference between me, Adam and Numan is that I'm still unpopular in the press (presenter laughs) I don’t think Adam and Numan are anymore, they have sort of started being appreciated a bit. But I’m nowhere as big as those two, at least I don’t think I am. I hope I will be one day, touch wood

RICHARD: But also on the sort of level being fantasy merchants it seems significant that the three of you have done very well by putting out songs that aren’t necessarily getting to grips with frightfully important matters of state and political things …

TOYAH: I don’t know though because on this album for the first time I’ve voiced my opinions - on the very first track of the album called “The Creepy Room”

SONG: The Creepy Room

RICHARD: “The Creepy room”, another track from the Toyah album “The Changeling”. What were you trying to get across on that? It’s a strange sort of -

TOYAH: It’s a cruel ending. I find that ending very funny. That is really saying OK, if this was a fascist country and you dare speak out against the world, they’re going to send you to a little room, where, say, 200 hundred years in the future, if we are still here as the human race, they’ll send you to a little room for some cold discomfort. Because your mind is out of tune and the point of the creepy room is to scare you, to scare you into fitting in with the rest of formalities

RICHARD: Toyah, the make-up side of your public image has always rather fascinated me -

TOYAH: Why are you smirking? (laughs)

RICHARD: What else could I do? I know you’re not wearing any today, I notice?

 

TOYAH: Yes I am! I don’t look that bad do I ?!

RICHARD: Compared to the pictures I usually see of you, you can be described as having on very little indeed -

TOYAH: I wear make-up virtually the whole time, facially I’m not perfect. I don’t think anybody is really. Just to go out on the street or just to live your everyday routine, you don’t want to paint birds all over your face -

RICHARD: That’s the new look?

TOYAH: Yeah yeah, see I like to -

RICHARD: So how song did that take, it’s amazing that – you’ve got a sort of block of birds flying across your face (both laugh) (above, "Brave New World" cover, 1982)

TOYAH: … Sorry I was about to say something I shouldn’t! We spent a whole day, the make-up - say, we spend three hours on, the hair three to four hours on

RICHARD: I don’t know much about these things because I don’t dye my hair every Tuesday but didn’t your hair begin to suffer somewhat?

TOYAH: No, my hair is like a Brillo pad (a metal pad used for washing up). If my hair was normal colour it would be all fuzzed out in a big afro cos my hair is wild. I’ve just got this wild matt of black hair and it doesn’t suit me

RICHARD: You did lend your name to a brand of make-up?

TOYAH: Yes, well, I designed it -

RICHARD: Who’s idea was the title? They were called “Toyah Man Scratchers”?

TOYAH: That was mine, yeah -

RICHARD: That's a strange name?

TOYAH: To me nails, glossy long nails have always seemed like a weapon. A weapon that the female’s natural weapon … I think nails are very aggressive things. And I thought “man scratchers”, it’s quite nice really, it’s nice to say -

RICHARD: So do you think you are quite aggressive then?

TOYAH: No, of course I’m not! I’m a big softie (they both laugh)

RICHARD: You didn’t strike me like that in "Tales Of the Unexpected"  (Toyah as "Blue Marigold" 1982, below)

TOYAH: Yeah, that was acting, that’s not me!

RICHARD: That was very convincing acting, I was definitely taken in -

TOYAH: Oh, really?

 

RICHARD: Is there anything you can tell me about the track “Angel and Me” on the album?

TOYAH: It’s just totally aggressive. The reason I like it is I want to put a video to it. It starts of very sweet and you start to gather that there’s this girl talking to her mother. And you’re not sure where she is - she could be in a bedsit, she could in a hospital

And then suddenly she’s like “can’t you see, it’s the angel, it’s the angel” and the whole thing bout the far section is she’s singing about the angel spreading the wings. And she can see this vision but her seeing the angel is her in the process of killing the person she’s talking to, it’s an incredible energy feeling -

RICHARD: It would be much easier to describe on a video -

TOYAH: It’s the feeling of adrenaline when we were working on this. She’s actually having a mad fit while she’s seeing the angel and suddenly it flashes to pushing a blade in someone’s eye, it’s totally schizophrenic

RICHARD: It’s a sort of video that’s unlikely to be shown on Top Of The Pops?
 
TOYAH: I mean it really is a horror horror horror experience in a way, in a nice way -

RICHARD: What you mean it’s going to be a horror experience in a nice way, I wouldn’t have thought that -

TOYAH: When you listen to that track first off you don’t catch all those words because they happen very quickly but if anyone wants to listen to, say, for the third time - if they haven’t thrown the album way by then (presenter laughs), (they) will strart picking out the different inflections and different meanings

"Get your hands off me, don’t touch me" - that comes out while she’s explaining how the angel is moving towards her. And it’s really someone encasing her in a (straight) jacket

SONG: Angel And Me

You can listen to the interview HERE